T Nation

Explosive Power

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
box jumps help with punching power?[/quote]

Depends who you ask. A lot of people think that punching power is something you’re born with- you either have it or don’t. You’ll see bangers who learn to box, but never pure boxers that learn to bang. You got it or you don’t.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
box jumps help with punching power?

I don’t know…maybe indirectly. Box jumps would definitely be of great benefit for grappling…and kicking power. If any plyometrics might be of use for punching power,it would be stuff like clapping push-ups,heavy medicine ball throws,etc.

I’ll reiterate my stance that nothing beats drilling power shots(with technique) on a heavy bag for increasing punching power. [/quote]

I agree with this.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Spending too much time in the weightroom is a big mistake for a boxer.

IMO so would not spending any be.

[/quote]

Nope.
Pushing iron mindlessly “to get stronger” is a mistake.
Your goals should be specific.

And: the exercises you suggested shouldn’t be recommended to someone training martial artist at the same time.

While some handle weighted dips very well, recommending them to most guys who’d box 3-4 times a week equals intentional deltoid murder.

This goes for all complemental training (raodwork, conditioning, strength, mobility etc) - the chance of injury shouldn’t rise too much. Compounding injuries should be avoided.
For this reason, problematic movements like weighted dips, upright rows, behind the neck work should be ditched. Power movements, where you use body language to increase poundage (eg push press)are out, too. Just like sloppy technique and egolifts like BPress with a deadlifting spotter.

However, taking some time off where you’re playing with weights, perhaps even to (cleanly) bulk a bit (ideally with movements & exercises that aren’t shoulder and knee killers) is absolutely ok.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

Nope.
Pushing iron mindlessly “to get stronger” is a mistake.
Your goals should be specific.

And: the exercises you suggested shouldn’t be recommended to someone training martial artist at the same time.

While some handle weighted dips very well, recommending them to most guys who’d box 3-4 times a week equals intentional deltoid murder.

This goes for all complemental training (raodwork, conditioning, strength, mobility etc) - the chance of injury shouldn’t rise too much. Compounding injuries should be avoided.
For this reason, problematic movements like weighted dips, upright rows, behind the neck work should be ditched. Power movements, where you use body language to increase poundage (eg push press)are out, too. Just like sloppy technique and egolifts like BPress with a deadlifting spotter.

However, taking some time off where you’re playing with weights, perhaps even to (cleanly) bulk a bit (ideally with movements & exercises that aren’t shoulder and knee killers) is absolutely ok.

[/quote]

I agree.

I do so much shadowboxing and heavy bag work that my shoulders are beat up as is. Hence why I rarely bench press anymore, and Military press once in a blue moon.

However, I do like dips alot, and weighted dips… for some reason isn’t as hard on me as the bench press is, so I stick with it.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Nope.
Pushing iron mindlessly “to get stronger” is a mistake.
Your goals should be specific.
[/quote]

oh gosh you’re right! lifting weights ‘to get stronger’ is most definatly a mistake!

did i just read that correctly? on a BODYBUILDING website? good jesus.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
And: the exercises you suggested shouldn’t be recommended to someone training martial artist at the same time.

While some handle weighted dips very well, recommending them to most guys who’d box 3-4 times a week equals intentional deltoid murder.

This goes for all complemental training (raodwork, conditioning, strength, mobility etc) - the chance of injury shouldn’t rise too much. Compounding injuries should be avoided.
For this reason, problematic movements like weighted dips, upright rows, behind the neck work should be ditched. Power movements, where you use body language to increase poundage (eg push press)are out, too. Just like sloppy technique and egolifts like BPress with a deadlifting spotter.

[/quote]

i don’t get the big deal with you guys. i do MA 2-3 times a week, including full speed rolling around and sparring. i also lift. heavy. you know, so i can get stronger and shit.

you guys sit back and wail and wail about how you’ll get injured lifting and doing MA. i call bullshit.

granted, if you’re boxing 5 days a week, i may understand. however i’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest the OP is fairly novice in his training.

in that case, if it doesn’t hurt him, why CAN’T he do the lifts i suggest while boxing as well.

sheesh, it’s like you guys are afraid to get bigger and stronger.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

i don’t get the big deal with you guys. i do MA 2-3 times a week, including full speed rolling around and sparring. i also lift. heavy. you know, so i can get stronger and shit.

you guys sit back and wail and wail about how you’ll get injured lifting and doing MA. i call bullshit.

granted, if you’re boxing 5 days a week, i may understand. however i’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest the OP is fairly novice in his training.

in that case, if it doesn’t hurt him, why CAN’T he do the lifts i suggest while boxing as well.

sheesh, it’s like you guys are afraid to get bigger and stronger.[/quote]

I weightlift 3 days a week too. Don’t get me wrong… I love lifting, and do it frequently. But I’m not competing, or preparing for a competition.

If you’re preparing for a combat sport competition that’s going to go on for a protracted period of time where if you lose, you can be seriously injured, every second needs to be spent on skills and conditioning.

Don’t ask me. Look at every trainer who trains boxers. Weightlifting is there, but far from prominent.

It’s not being anti-weightlifting, it’s just having your priorities straight. Someone who spars hundreds of rounds is going to be more adept at boxing then someone who spars and lifts more. You get better at lifting weights by lifting weights. You get better at fighting by fighting. There’s no two ways about it.

Look at it this way- weightlifting doesn’t make you a worse fighter, but it doesn’t make you better either. It makes you stronger, which in boxing may or may not matter depending on your style.

Sparring, padwork, shadowboxing, jumping rope…doing these things (or not) has a direct effect on the way you perform in the ring. And with only so many hours in the day between working (because until they make HBO, they all got day jobs) and families and all the other shit, lifting has to take the back seat to skillwork.

Where a pro fighter may be able to fit in an AM weightlifting session three days a week and be able to recover, the guy who has under 15 pro wins and no one cares about DOES NOT… making it corolate directly to the OP also, because he’s no pro.

And boxers ARE afraid of getting bigger- making weight means you can only put so much on your frame. There’s a lot of 5’10 guys who have to make 160… that means you can’t exactly bodybuild.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

You get better at lifting weights by lifting weights. You get better at fighting by fighting. There’s no two ways about it.[/quote]

hey man there’s no arguing that. i’m just saying the OP seems to be in a position where he can benifit from both training and heavy lifting, if you guys think his poor tiny body can handle it.

when he starts paying his bills by boxing, i might change my tune. for the average joe that enjoys stepping in the ring once in a while or tagging a heavy bag a few times a week, i feel supplementing with some solid iron time could always help.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

And boxers ARE afraid of getting bigger- making weight means you can only put so much on your frame. There’s a lot of 5’10 guys who have to make 160… that means you can’t exactly bodybuild.[/quote]

of course.

let me reiterate that i’m merely trying to say a guy who boxes for a hobby should not FEAR heavy lifting.

now guys who compete or box for a living, that’s a whole nothing story. and something which i’m not familiar with, so i won’t offer advice on that.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i don’t get the big deal with you guys. i do MA 2-3 times a week, including full speed rolling around and sparring. i also lift. heavy. you know, so i can get stronger and shit.

you guys sit back and wail and wail about how you’ll get injured lifting and doing MA. i call bullshit.

granted, if you’re boxing 5 days a week, i may understand. however i’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest the OP is fairly novice in his training.

in that case, if it doesn’t hurt him, why CAN’T he do the lifts i suggest while boxing as well.

sheesh, it’s like you guys are afraid to get bigger and stronger.[/quote]

Well,I’m definitely not an enemy of getting bigger and stronger. Nothing is wrong with lifting heavy weights…I lift heavy as well twice a week on top of skill training and conditioning. BUT the key is that as a boxer,mma fighter,muay thai fighter…etc…you have to find a fine balance. Especially,when as a combat athlete…technique and skill is EVERYTHING.

Sure you need conditioning…and strength. But keep in mind that training of fighting skill should never revolve around strength training…That is the point that is trying to be made. I think the stigma of weights being bad comes from this: If you are putting in a ton of training with boxing,etc…and you start lifting heavy 3-4 times a week…there is a degree of overtraining that is likely to happen. You overtrain…you tend to get injured. Of course,the culprit is always put on heavy weights…which is not necessarily the case. It’s a matter of the VOLUME of training that causes injuries.

But i think the we have gotten a little off track of the OP’s inquiry. In relation to the OP’s issue…weights are only a fraction of the answer in increasing punching power…

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

You get better at lifting weights by lifting weights. You get better at fighting by fighting. There’s no two ways about it.

hey man there’s no arguing that. i’m just saying the OP seems to be in a position where he can benifit from both training and heavy lifting, if you guys think his poor tiny body can handle it.

when he starts paying his bills by boxing, i might change my tune. for the average joe that enjoys stepping in the ring once in a while or tagging a heavy bag a few times a week, i feel supplementing with some solid iron time could always help.[/quote]

I agree with this…IF that is the case…but,again,keep in mind what the OP was asking.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Sure you need conditioning…and strength. But keep in mind that training of fighting skill should never revolve around strength training…That is the point that is trying to be made. [/quote]

i definatly agree with that point. if i went against it at any point earlier i apologize. i’m merely trying to say that i think heavy lifting CAN be included.

however, i just feel most people are to quick to jump the gun on the whole ‘overtraining’ thing. rare to see that happen with regular joes IMO.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

Sure you need conditioning…and strength. But keep in mind that training of fighting skill should never revolve around strength training…That is the point that is trying to be made.

i definatly agree with that point. if i went against it at any point earlier i apologize. i’m merely trying to say that i think heavy lifting CAN be included.

however, i just feel most people are to quick to jump the gun on the whole ‘overtraining’ thing. rare to see that happen with regular joes IMO.[/quote]

Oh,I understand completely…this was actually a topic of discussion with my coaches…and I think I read in a recent article here. Hey,and accept my friend request,dammit.

A lot of action on this thread.

Let me just clarify a few things. I do lift heavy and have been consistently for the past 3 years. I do not plan on stopping that anytime soon. I also do skills training in boxing 3 times/week.

My question was only in regards to adding on some kind of explosive training to my current routine. Like I said, I have been doing kettle ball swings recently and also jumping up and touching the backboard at the basketball court (thanks for the video btw, that was awesome). Big_Boss, explosive just as an athlete, not specifically for punching, although that would be nice. But I think I got my question answered. Medicine ball, lifting weights explosively, sledge hammer, etc all these work great. Thanks.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

Sure you need conditioning…and strength. But keep in mind that training of fighting skill should never revolve around strength training…That is the point that is trying to be made.

i definatly agree with that point. if i went against it at any point earlier i apologize. i’m merely trying to say that i think heavy lifting CAN be included.

however, i just feel most people are to quick to jump the gun on the whole ‘overtraining’ thing. rare to see that happen with regular joes IMO.[/quote]

I absolutely agree that most people never touch overtraining. It’s a thing that got really huge and popular as a catchphrase a couple years ago and hasn’t gone away, unfortunately. Most people (especially in lifting) could benefit from “Overtraining” because it’d mean that they were actually doing work.

But with me, at least, when I was doing two martial arts classes a week, the best I could do was lift twice, maybe three times, a week. If I do more than that, I get injured. It’s like clockwork… guess my body just can’t handle heavy volume. I may not have been integrating it right, either- lifting for too long on off days, as opposed to keeping the sessions short. I don’t know.

isn’t power, by defination, explosive?

Well here are a few things that have helped me get more explosive: Lunges, Jump Squats (squat with a jump when you come up), training with ankle and wrist weights, and plyometrics. I am a hockey goaltender so I don’t know if this would work for boxing, but I have been doing all the stuff above for about a month or two and I can already see an increase in explosiveness and overall speed.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Fezz wrote:
You need a good strength base before you do plyometrics, i think the rule of thumb is being able to squat 1.5x your bodyweight.

The more I thought about this the more retarded it sounded. To be honest, I don’t give a fuck who said this, they’re wrong.

Plyometrics are basic human functions. Do you need to squat 1.5x bodyweight to jump as high as you can to grab a tree branch? No. Do you have to bench a certain amount of weight before you can push yourself up as fast as possible if you fell and someone is chasing you? No. Do you have to have to be really strong if you’re throwing cinder blocks onto a pallet? No. What’s the difference then?[/quote]

Funny thing this. I think what happened is that the meaning of plyometrics got garbled as is was translated form Russian to English. Near as I recall, plyometrics are “shock absorbing” movements - like doing a vertical jump and trying to land with your knees only slightly bent, or box jumps. Obviously this shit is pretty advanced. Problem is, you then had a whole bunch of guys going around recommending that you don’t jump unless you squat 1.5x bodyweight, which is pure lunacy. I bet some of those gangly basketball players can’t squat worth a shit, but they sure can jump (unless, of course, they’re white).

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
box jumps help with punching power?

I don’t know…maybe indirectly. Box jumps would definitely be of great benefit for grappling…and kicking power. If any plyometrics might be of use for punching power,it would be stuff like clapping push-ups,heavy medicine ball throws,etc.

I’ll reiterate my stance that nothing beats drilling power shots(with technique) on a heavy bag for increasing punching power. [/quote]

Why would you just focus on upper body stuff for punching. A good punch is about total connection and coordination of the body from the tip of the toe through to the fist. Getting drive from the legs is vital on this.

Things like power cleans are a good way of working the transfer of energy from a leg drive into upper body motion.

That said, I agree, working the heavy bag is one of the best ways to increase power.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Why would you just focus on upper body stuff for punching. A good punch is about total connection and coordination of the body from the tip of the toe through to the fist. Getting drive from the legs is vital on this.

Things like power cleans are a good way of working the transfer of energy from a leg drive into upper body motion.

That said, I agree, working the heavy bag is one of the best ways to increase power.[/quote]

uhhh, no one said to only do upper body stuff…