Explain Republicans to Me

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
22

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What Pat stated is precisely what this forum needs more of: offers of solution, not rhetorical ranting and raving. I know I have disagreed with some of Pat’s posts in the past (nothing specific comes to mind) but if we disagree and the disagreement is part of a civil discourse, I can lend a certain amount of credibility to what he says. No one here wants to preach to the choir, but we don’t want to preach to the absolutely unconvertable either. [/quote]

It’s an internet forum, which is near the top of the list of “ways to waste your time”. don’t take it to seriously.

23

[quote]Xav wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SteinJorgen wrote:
I really don�??�??�?�´t get them, they seem really strung up and mad - all the time.

I mean, on immigration/abortion/guns/muslims/“socialism”/obamacare/obama/taxes etc,
you dont discuss calmly about these topics - you rant on and on about it, in a kind of
angry way. When Obama was elected it sounded like the world was going to end, and now
with the healthcare-issue its the same fear ranting (although i think in a few years no-one
will remember what the fuzz was about).

So, thats my (and many others) impression of you, someone care to explain why its like that?[/quote]

Are you saying liberals argue respectfully? Puhleeze, you’re new 'round these parts. They are the kings of name calling and yo mama insults.[/quote]

This is this entire forum in a nutshell right here. Someone starts a thread with a slightly smarmy attitude, then someone who takes offense at the thread’s topic says something like “all blanks are the reason X is fucked up” or they respond to some sort of accusation by saying “no, all X’s do it, not all Y’s” and pretty soon the whole thing devolves into a bunch of bickering back and forth where no one acknowledges the substance (if there is any) of anyone else’s argument. There are some rational people here who are capable of making excellent points for both sides of an issue in a civilized manner, but they’re in the minority.

Half the people on this forum argue/debate an issue by constantly saying “tell me why this” “explain to me that” and so on without offering any solutions or insights of their own (Pushharder). These people seem to think that whoever can add the most insults or pick at some miniscule aspect of an argument with vitriolic hatred automatically makes their beliefs correct.

Look at the healthcare debate raging right now. Most people on this forum are against it, but I’ve only seen a couple of its opponents here offer any sort of alternative solution. The rest just rant and rave without actually offering up any sort of alternatives to what they oppose. Opposition for opposition’s sake from people who lack independent thinking. Of course this last paragraph will have many people trying to pigeonhole me as a liberal (despite the fact I’ve never voted for a Democrat in my life) because it makes it easier for them to attack me this way.

[/quote]

Saying “tell me why this” “explain to me that” is basically asking questions and normally means the person tries to understand your point of view. Asking questions is a very smart thing to do. Socrates learned us this and I hope you agree he was a smart man!

Also, you want people to give solutions. We are talking about organizing society here, which is without any doubt the hardest quest for mankind. Obviously nobody in history has found THE answer. People who are not offering solutions are humble enough to realize they are probably not smart enough.
Explaining why somebody’s arguments are wrong is a valid way of discussing.

I wholeheartedly agree that insults end a constructive discussion.[/quote]

Most of the “questions” being asked on this board are not, however, done with the intent of learning something. No, they are most similar to those you see on FOX or MSNBC when someone from the “other side” shows up. Their premises are full of red herrings and attempts at “gotcha” moments. I’ve read many a “true” question on this board before, but most are intentionally BS.

24

I am a republican, but let me tell you that i DONT DO RELIGION, any of it, i think they (religions) are all a bunch of bullshit. I’ll also say that i dont hate Obama (notice i even capitolize his name), and likewise never understood why people HATED Bush so bad, he is still a human being trying to do the right thing…

My perception of the two parties

Republican mentality:

This is your dad, he tells you to “rub some dirt on it” to go “figure it out” and “grow up”. He will help you when you are in true need of help, but he wont ever give you more than you need, and no, he wont tuck you in at night

Everyone in this country is expected to bring something to the table (unless you are truely* disabled), you can do this (most often) by getting a job and being ambitious, constantly reaching higher to contribute more to society, provide for yourself/your family and expecting VERY LITTLE (if any for that matter) help from the government. You dont give much to the government in terms of taxes because you expect very little from the government, you take care of yourself. And, oh yea, you fuck with us? We’ll get all American on your ass and fucking bomb the shit out of you.

Democrat mentality:

This is your mommy, she will give you a hug, a piece of candy, rub some lotion on your owie, put a band-aid on it, kiss it, then tell you everything will be ok. She will always be there to cook you a meal, tell you that the world is full of mean people and provide you with anything you WANT. She will tuck you in at night and pour the milk in the bowl for your cereal in the morning.

Democrats expect very little from people, “you tried and thats the best you can do, so you deserve everything” and fuck, even if you didnt try, you deserve the same things that everyone else has. Why should everyone else but you have nice things and a nice life? Sure you didnt do anything for society, but you (may have) tried. As for all those AMBITOUS, SUCCESSFUL, EVIL, RICH people out there, they really owe you one, and you will definetly get it through the government programs that are paid for by all those EVIL SUCCESSFUL people. Cant take care of yourself or your family? Dont worry THE GOVERNMENTS GOT YOUR BACK. Ultimately this discourages people to be ambitious and make money for themselves

I’ve heard too many stories of people starting out at the bottom, with nothing, no family, no money, nothing, but they turned their life around with little to no assistance from the government and ended up being successful and wealthy, theres no fucking reason that any other able bodied/minded person here in AMERICA cant do the same, thats WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT FOR and dems want to turn it into sweeden or Canada

As for republicans being direspectful in debate…ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? When i discuss shit with my liberal friend he doesnt even talk about the fucking topic he just attacks me personally and calls me names while i sit there, defending myself while trying to talk about the actual topic.

25

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democratâ??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

Christ, you really have no idea how big of a joke you are. Seriously, who really believes (well, besides you) that either party is putting country before party?

mike

27

[quote]Xav wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SteinJorgen wrote:
I really don�??�??�?�´t get them, they seem really strung up and mad - all the time.

I mean, on immigration/abortion/guns/muslims/“socialism”/obamacare/obama/taxes etc,
you dont discuss calmly about these topics - you rant on and on about it, in a kind of
angry way. When Obama was elected it sounded like the world was going to end, and now
with the healthcare-issue its the same fear ranting (although i think in a few years no-one
will remember what the fuzz was about).

So, thats my (and many others) impression of you, someone care to explain why its like that?[/quote]

Are you saying liberals argue respectfully? Puhleeze, you’re new 'round these parts. They are the kings of name calling and yo mama insults.[/quote]

This is this entire forum in a nutshell right here. Someone starts a thread with a slightly smarmy attitude, then someone who takes offense at the thread’s topic says something like “all blanks are the reason X is fucked up” or they respond to some sort of accusation by saying “no, all X’s do it, not all Y’s” and pretty soon the whole thing devolves into a bunch of bickering back and forth where no one acknowledges the substance (if there is any) of anyone else’s argument. There are some rational people here who are capable of making excellent points for both sides of an issue in a civilized manner, but they’re in the minority.

Half the people on this forum argue/debate an issue by constantly saying “tell me why this” “explain to me that” and so on without offering any solutions or insights of their own (Pushharder). These people seem to think that whoever can add the most insults or pick at some miniscule aspect of an argument with vitriolic hatred automatically makes their beliefs correct.

Look at the healthcare debate raging right now. Most people on this forum are against it, but I’ve only seen a couple of its opponents here offer any sort of alternative solution. The rest just rant and rave without actually offering up any sort of alternatives to what they oppose. Opposition for opposition’s sake from people who lack independent thinking. Of course this last paragraph will have many people trying to pigeonhole me as a liberal (despite the fact I’ve never voted for a Democrat in my life) because it makes it easier for them to attack me this way.

[/quote]

Saying “tell me why this” “explain to me that” is basically asking questions and normally means the person tries to understand your point of view. Asking questions is a very smart thing to do. Socrates learned us this and I hope you agree he was a smart man!

Also, you want people to give solutions. We are talking about organizing society here, which is without any doubt the hardest quest for mankind. Obviously nobody in history has found THE answer. People who are not offering solutions are humble enough to realize they are probably not smart enough.
Explaining why somebody’s arguments are wrong is a valid way of discussing.

I wholeheartedly agree that insults end a constructive discussion.[/quote]

Socrates had a final point that carried a lot of validity that his Socratic dialogue ultimately was intended to get to. He didn’t ask question after question in order to avoid giving any answers himself. There is Socratic sophistry and there is modern sophistry. I almost always see modern sophistry here and rarely if ever have seen genuine Socratic dialogue on any of these threads. If you want to give yourself a little test, go back to the Jefferson vs Lincoln thread and try to figure where the modern sophistry takes place and where the genuine, substance-laden arguments are. The genuine ones aren’t always the right ones, but they have substance, which is sorely lacking in some of these threads.

28

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I am a republican, but let me tell you that i DONT DO RELIGION, any of it, i think they (religions) are all a bunch of bullshit. I’ll also say that i dont hate Obama (notice i even capitolize his name), and likewise never understood why people HATED Bush so bad, he is still a human being trying to do the right thing…

My perception of the two parties

Republican mentality:

This is your dad, he tells you to “rub some dirt on it” to go “figure it out” and “grow up”. He will help you when you are in true need of help, but he wont ever give you more than you need, and no, he wont tuck you in at night

Everyone in this country is expected to bring something to the table (unless you are truely* disabled), you can do this (most often) by getting a job and being ambitious, constantly reaching higher to contribute more to society, provide for yourself/your family and expecting VERY LITTLE (if any for that matter) help from the government. You dont give much to the government in terms of taxes because you expect very little from the government, you take care of yourself. And, oh yea, you fuck with us? We’ll get all American on your ass and fucking bomb the shit out of you.

Democrat mentality:

This is your mommy, she will give you a hug, a piece of candy, rub some lotion on your owie, put a band-aid on it, kiss it, then tell you everything will be ok. She will always be there to cook you a meal, tell you that the world is full of mean people and provide you with anything you WANT. She will tuck you in at night and pour the milk in the bowl for your cereal in the morning.

Democrats expect very little from people, “you tried and thats the best you can do, so you deserve everything” and fuck, even if you didnt try, you deserve the same things that everyone else has. Why should everyone else but you have nice things and a nice life? Sure you didnt do anything for society, but you (may have) tried. As for all those AMBITOUS, SUCCESSFUL, EVIL, RICH people out there, they really owe you one, and you will definetly get it through the government programs that are paid for by all those EVIL SUCCESSFUL people. Cant take care of yourself or your family? Dont worry THE GOVERNMENTS GOT YOUR BACK. Ultimately this discourages people to be ambitious and make money for themselves

I’ve heard too many stories of people starting out at the bottom, with nothing, no family, no money, nothing, but they turned their life around with little to no assistance from the government and ended up being successful and wealthy, theres no fucking reason that any other able bodied/minded person here in AMERICA cant do the same, thats WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT FOR and dems want to turn it into sweeden or Canada

As for republicans being direspectful in debate…ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? When i discuss shit with my liberal friend he doesnt even talk about the fucking topic he just attacks me personally and calls me names while i sit there, defending myself while trying to talk about the actual topic.[/quote]

If your analysis of the two parties’ respective mentalities is accurate, why are the two wealthiest states in the Union blue as blue can be?

29

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

Christ, you really have no idea how big of a joke you are. Seriously, who really believes (well, besides you) that either party is putting country before party?

mike[/quote]

I must agree with Mike here. Neither political party is really working “for the people”, I doubt even Obama is working “for the the people”. At the end of the day, these politicians are in fact people, and look out for themselves.

30

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�?�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

Christ, you really have no idea how big of a joke you are. Seriously, who really believes (well, besides you) that either party is putting country before party?

mike[/quote]

I must agree with Mike here. Neither political party is really working “for the people”, I doubt even Obama is working “for the the people”. At the end of the day, these politicians are in fact people, and look out for themselves.[/quote]

Funny, I think (some) people on both parties INTEND to put country before party…but political realities bite 'em in the ass. I would guess McCain, Obama, Bush, and Clinton all intend(ed) to put country first.

31

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democratâ??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

This is kind of insightful.

I can’t put my finger on why.

32

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�??�?�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

Christ, you really have no idea how big of a joke you are. Seriously, who really believes (well, besides you) that either party is putting country before party?

mike[/quote]

I must agree with Mike here. Neither political party is really working “for the people”, I doubt even Obama is working “for the the people”. At the end of the day, these politicians are in fact people, and look out for themselves.[/quote]

Funny, I think (some) people on both parties INTEND to put country before party…but political realities bite 'em in the ass. I would guess McCain, Obama, Bush, and Clinton all intend(ed) to put country first. [/quote]

Oh I have no doubt that most started with quite noble aspirations. And you’re absolutely right, reality is a bitch.

33

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Democrat mentality:

This is your mommy…

Democrats expect very little from people …
[/quote]

New healtcare provisions state that insurance companies provide benefits to “children” up to age 26. Twenty-fucking-six-year-old “children”.

At 26, I had been working full-time for 8 years, paid for my own college, married, and half-way through a graduate degree.

More like “This is your fucking Nanny…”

Democrats expect very little from people …

They expect NOTHING from people… except money. And compliance.

34

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democratâ??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

59% of people polled by cnn disapproved of the final Senate bill.

That’s cnn. So the true number is probably higher.

Hope that helps expose your partisan hackery.

JeffR

35

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

59% of people polled by cnn disapproved of the final Senate bill.

That’s cnn. So the true number is probably higher.

Hope that helps expose your partisan hackery.

JeffR
[/quote]

I just heard that 50% of people believe that the bill is a step in the right direction, as opposed to 40% who feel it isn’t.

36

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�?�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

59% of people polled by cnn disapproved of the final Senate bill.

That’s cnn. So the true number is probably higher.

Hope that helps expose your partisan hackery.

JeffR
[/quote]

I just heard that 50% of people believe that the bill is a step in the right direction, as opposed to 40% who feel it isn’t. [/quote]

That’s nice. Care to expound on the particulars?

I’ve got some pretty compelling evidence from various polling/SCOTT BROWN, that the majority of people disapprove of this bill.

If you’d like more, I’d be happy to provide more evidence. I picked cnn because they are liberal. That makes it even more valid, in my opinion, because cnn would be more likely to push the liberal line.

Let me know if I can help.

JeffR

37

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�??�?�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

59% of people polled by cnn disapproved of the final Senate bill.

That’s cnn. So the true number is probably higher.

Hope that helps expose your partisan hackery.

JeffR
[/quote]

I just heard that 50% of people believe that the bill is a step in the right direction, as opposed to 40% who feel it isn’t. [/quote]

That’s nice. Care to expound on the particulars?

I’ve got some pretty compelling evidence from various polling/SCOTT BROWN, that the majority of people disapprove of this bill.

If you’d like more, I’d be happy to provide more evidence. I picked cnn because they are liberal. That makes it even more valid, in my opinion, because cnn would be more likely to push the liberal line.

Let me know if I can help.

JeffR
[/quote]

What’s Scott Brown have to do with anything? Who gives a shit about Mass.

I’d be interested in your polls. Everyone loves a winner, and every poll I’ve seen since the bill passed now shows a decent majority support it. That’s the way it goes.

38

[/quote]

What’s Scott Brown have to do with anything? Who gives a shit about Mass.

I’d be interested in your polls. Everyone loves a winner, and every poll I’ve seen since the bill passed now shows a decent majority support it. That’s the way it goes.[/quote]

All I can say, is wow. Just Google: Scott Brown + healthcare. Then try Pollster.

Oh, why should we care about Mass.? They have a plan very similar and they reject this one.

JeffR

39

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

All I can say, is wow. Just Google: Scott Brown + healthcare. Then try Pollster.

Oh, why should we care about Mass.? They have a plan very similar and they reject this one.

JeffR

[/quote]

Your link is broken, or the poll was taken down.

40

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democrat�??�??�?�¢??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.[/quote]

59% of people polled by cnn disapproved of the final Senate bill.

That’s cnn. So the true number is probably higher.

Hope that helps expose your partisan hackery.

JeffR
[/quote]

I just heard that 50% of people believe that the bill is a step in the right direction, as opposed to 40% who feel it isn’t. [/quote]

That’s nice. Care to expound on the particulars?

I’ve got some pretty compelling evidence from various polling/SCOTT BROWN, that the majority of people disapprove of this bill.

If you’d like more, I’d be happy to provide more evidence. I picked cnn because they are liberal. That makes it even more valid, in my opinion, because cnn would be more likely to push the liberal line.

Let me know if I can help.

JeffR
[/quote]

What’s Scott Brown have to do with anything? Who gives a shit about Mass.

I’d be interested in your polls. Everyone loves a winner, and every poll I’ve seen since the bill passed now shows a decent majority support it. That’s the way it goes.[/quote]

Google Scott Brown + health care.

Mass. has a health system similar to what this bill envisions. They elected Scott Brown who promised to be the 41st vote against.
JeffR