T Nation

Explain Republicans to Me


#1

I really don´t get them, they seem really strung up and mad - all the time.

I mean, on immigration/abortion/guns/muslims/"socialism"/obamacare/obama/taxes etc,
you dont discuss calmly about these topics - you rant on and on about it, in a kind of
angry way. When Obama was elected it sounded like the world was going to end, and now
with the healthcare-issue its the same fear ranting (although i think in a few years no-one
will remember what the fuzz was about).

So, thats my (and many others) impression of you, someone care to explain why its like that?


#2

Republicans where?


#3

If you mean country; USA, if you mean where in the country i dont know.


#4

He meant where are the Republicans on this forum.


#5

read atlas shrugged.
it's unfolding right before us.


#6

Are you saying liberals argue respectfully? Puhleeze, you're new 'round these parts. They are the kings of name calling and yo mama insults.


#7

This is this entire forum in a nutshell right here. Someone starts a thread with a slightly smarmy attitude, then someone who takes offense at the thread's topic says something like "all blanks are the reason X is fucked up" or they respond to some sort of accusation by saying "no, all X's do it, not all Y's" and pretty soon the whole thing devolves into a bunch of bickering back and forth where no one acknowledges the substance (if there is any) of anyone else's argument. There are some rational people here who are capable of making excellent points for both sides of an issue in a civilized manner, but they're in the minority.

Half the people on this forum argue/debate an issue by constantly saying "tell me why this" "explain to me that" and so on without offering any solutions or insights of their own (Pushharder). These people seem to think that whoever can add the most insults or pick at some miniscule aspect of an argument with vitriolic hatred automatically makes their beliefs correct.

Look at the healthcare debate raging right now. Most people on this forum are against it, but I've only seen a couple of its opponents here offer any sort of alternative solution. The rest just rant and rave without actually offering up any sort of alternatives to what they oppose. Opposition for opposition's sake from people who lack independent thinking. Of course this last paragraph will have many people trying to pigeonhole me as a liberal (despite the fact I've never voted for a Democrat in my life) because it makes it easier for them to attack me this way.


#8

I have many solutions to health care reform, and each should be a separate bill not wrapped into one. obama risks losing his precious bill if the language is force to be changed. It may not pass the house twice.


#9

Bingo. People come to the PWI forum to feel good. They come in with their identity (aka beliefs), their low self esteem - and with these... they hate on people. They rag on others with no end (supposedly for being different) in an attempt to fill up their own well-being.

There is a minority, however, in PWI that is looking for answers.
Be wary of the ones that have them, though.

Maybe the alternative solution is to not do anything?


#10

What Pat stated is precisely what this forum needs more of: offers of solution, not rhetorical ranting and raving. I know I have disagreed with some of Pat's posts in the past (nothing specific comes to mind) but if we disagree and the disagreement is part of a civil discourse, I can lend a certain amount of credibility to what he says. No one here wants to preach to the choir, but we don't want to preach to the absolutely unconvertable either.


#11

Too many people on both sides are getting their "News" from too few sources. Many Republicans get all their news from Fox, talk radio and conservative blogs. They reinforce eachother's goals, fears and general world view.

We live in an era, where if you choose, you can almost completely insulate you world from decenting opinions. When you do this, anything contrary to what your feeding yourself 24/7 seems absurd, stupid and not worth consideration.

If I get all my "News" from the Fox News evening lineup, Rush, and a smattering of right-wing websites, I get little or no coherent decenting opinions. Sure, I get to see some straw-men taken down, but my ideas aren't challenged, just reinforced.

This is especially easy when you're the party out of power, because decent is much easier than governance. Solutions tend to be complicated, but criticisms can be simple, direct and easily understood. So since the Republicans are out of power, and their leadership doesn't have to attempt to govern, they can really dumb-down the message, with their only goal at the moment, being to whip up anti-dem/liberal/progressive/socialist/commy sentiment any way they can, and hope it translates in to votes come November.


#12

Agreed. By the way, it's "dissent" not "decent".


#13

And some people with God like qualities, automatically know the source of peoples opinion because they disagree so it must be Fox.
Quit reading moveon.org talking points. <- see I can do it to.


#14

Way to refute me.

I can go onto about countless online boards where people proudly boast they ONLY get their news from Fox, and that they ONLY listen to conservative talk radio. I know that makes it tough on few critical thinkers left with Republican loyalties, but your party has been hijacked.

I'm also pretty sure that I said people on the left often do the same thing: it's so easy to do it. My grandma for example, gets all her news from MSNBC, Amy Goodman, Huffinton Post, and MoveOn.org. Don't try and talk to her about Israel. But this thread was asking about Republicans.


#15

Saying "tell me why this" "explain to me that" is basically asking questions and normally means the person tries to understand your point of view. Asking questions is a very smart thing to do. Socrates learned us this and I hope you agree he was a smart man!

Also, you want people to give solutions. We are talking about organizing society here, which is without any doubt the hardest quest for mankind. Obviously nobody in history has found THE answer. People who are not offering solutions are humble enough to realize they are probably not smart enough.
Explaining why somebody's arguments are wrong is a valid way of discussing.

I wholeheartedly agree that insults end a constructive discussion.


#16

Hi.

Would you say that this attitude is at least as prevalent on the left? If you disagree, please replay every single news article from January 2001 to November of 2008. Focus on articles involving George W. Bush.

Second, if you are seriously trying to understand anger at a certain issue, then, discuss that issue.

Finally, if you are just another hack trying to justify an ill-informed stereotype, I'll see you 11/10.

JeffR


#17

I'm surprised you expect people with passionate views and beliefs about their country to be completely...apathetic when it comes to debating those views and beliefs.


#18

Republicans are a more cohesive group than Democrats. Republicans strategy is designed to win for Republicans; Democratâ??s strategy on the other hand would be more conducive on what is best for the Country rather than the Democratic Party.


#19

Let's not pretend this is recent. Barry Goldwater knew it when he was in power, and hell, that was years ago.


#20

True. Some of my favorite political quotes are his observations and predictions about where the party was headed (and ultimately went).