[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
[/quote]
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Knowing if you’re doing something too frequently and cutting back, and if you decide to eventually quit is what it takes. Trust me, I know it’s a lot more difficult then I can make it sound on the internet. But it isn’t impossible.
No, I don’t trust you at all, because I don’t think you have any fucking idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]
Agreed. Anyone who has the outlook on addiction to hard drugs that can be nutshelled as, “Dude, just cut back a little” or, “Grow a pair and just don’t do it” has most likely never met anyone with a genuine addiction and has most certainly never been addicted themselves.
Not to say willpower doesn’t play a role - they aren’t entirely helpless to their addiction, and it’s not like I’m trying to shovel their personal responsibility elsewhere…but, in many cases, it isn’t nearly as black and white as some would think.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Can someone in the know explain if and how LSD can make someone permanently insane?
Chemically I have no idea. But I do know a friend of mine had a bad trip on a long car ride, thought he died and came back, then went nuts for a couple months, and was sitting everyone he knew down and telling them their strengths and weaknesses and how they should be running their lives. It took a while for him to straighten out.
As far as addicition goes, Zep is right. I’ve seen people quickly become addicted to drugs, well on their way to ruining their lives. Others can handle it.
Those who can’t are weak and deserve what they get. I certainly don’t think anyone should be using hallucinogenics on a regular basis, that’s just irresponsible and stupid.
It’s an individual thing. Some people have addicitive personalities, others can control themselves.
Weak and deserve what they get? Listen sunshine, it’s not their fault they have an addictive personality. There’s a reason that drug addiction is classified as a disease.
You sound like you’ve never had to deal with an addict that was close to you. It’s easy to be black and white about shit when it don’t affect you.
Not to play the self-righteous card, but my father was a crack addict for a few years. I believe addiction is a disease in the later stages, but you have to make a conscious choice to use to the point where you become addicited. That’s weakness. Buttercup.[/quote]
What I was trying to say. I gotta stop posting in between asshole customers.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.
[/quote]
There’s a book called “Acid Dreams- The CIA, LSD, and the Sixties Rebellion”. It’s about the 60s and the advent of acid… look into it, it might help you out and give you some other sources.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.[/quote]
I’m not entirely sure as to how this could come about, either, but so far as my experiences with hallucinogens is concerned: it’s impossible to adequately explain to someone what it means to “trip” on certain drugs or to explain your experiences in a way that will do them justice…
because in many cases, you are, in every sense of the phrase, “out of your fucking mind”…you just can’t explain the hopeless insanity of a bad trip to someone who has never strayed from the realm of the sane.
I would say it’s completely unimaginable to those who have never actually tried it (it gives you a little more perspective, that’s for damn sure).
So, while I admit I couldn’t guess the exact mechanisms as to how it could occur, I will say that the extent to which your sanity can be flung out of the ballpark is such that I’m not entirely surprised some never fully find their way back.
What do you think the average age of the pro vs. anti-drug people in this thread are?
Ask me 4 years ago I guarantee you I have a much more liberal view point.
It’s just that I’m a little older now and I am trying to aspire to bigger and better things.
FWIW I never was a drug addict, I was just much more open to the ideas then.
PS drugs are way too fucking expensive…
[quote]anonym wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.
I’m not entirely sure as to how this could come about, either, but so far as my experiences with hallucinogens is concerned: it’s impossible to adequately explain to someone what it means to “trip” on certain drugs or to explain your experiences in a way that will do them justice…
because in many cases, you are, in every sense of the phrase, “out of your fucking mind”…you just can’t explain the hopeless insanity of a bad trip to someone who has never strayed from the realm of the sane.
I would say it’s completely unimaginable to those who have never actually tried it (it gives you a little more perspective, that’s for damn sure).
So, while I admit I couldn’t guess the exact mechanisms as to how it could occur, I will say that the extent to which your sanity can be flung out of the ballpark is such that I’m not entirely surprised some never fully find their way back.[/quote]
I’ve never done them, so I wouldn’t know. Still not sure if I want to try, but I’m thinking not.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Can someone in the know explain if and how LSD can make someone permanently insane?
[/quote]
Although it is VERY rare, you can have a psychotic break. It generally has to do with extreme paranoia and having hallucinations. If the person had a trip sitter, then the chance of this happens is near 0.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
All that said, I wouldn’t touch cocaine, opioids, crack, etc with a ten-foot pole.
[/quote]
That’s understandable, everybody has their limits.
[quote]hedo wrote:
If you want to train your body drugs and alcohol are counterproductive to your goals.
I have a few drinks now and again but it isn’t an everyday thing.
Recreational drugs forget them. People only regret doing them. Never heard anyone say they wish they had done recreational drugs.[/quote]
Alcohol is a drug too… We’ll here is your first. I am GLAD I have done recreational drugs, they have helped me find out many things about myself that I wouldn’t have known otherwise.
[quote]DeterminedNate wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Worst. Post. Ever.
What he said.
Do either of you have any experience with hard drugs?
OP: If you need to know anything www.erowid.org
You NEED to know what you’re getting in to before you do ANYTHING.
Erowid.org is a great tool for the beginner recreational drug user. I’d like to echo zaphead’s post and say that you need to do your research and realize what exactly you are getting into.
Read all you can about the drugs, weigh out the pro’s and con’s, and decide for yourself if you really want to do them. And when you do do them, make sure you don’t go overboard, always keep yourself in check.
I’ve done drugs that were a ton of fun, almost too fun. And armed with that knowledge, I chose not to do them ever again because I realized the potential for addiction, bodily harm and even death.
Be smart and don’t even consider any hard, street drugs like meth, heroin, crack, etc.
[/quote]
Erowid is a GREAT tool for beginners, but every drug I have done has not been without research. I look at the pro’s, the con’s, the effects(long and short), addiction potential, etc.
Drugs can be a lot of fun, but you need to know your limits. If you do not have a lot of self control, then things can go down the drain fast.
[quote]entheogens said:
Look, I wouldn’t mess with heroin. But don’t lump hallucinogenics in with stuff like the opioids, cocaine, crack, etc.
Here is a list of the drugs/plants I have done: LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin mushrooms, MDMA (Ecstacy), Salvia Divinorum, ayahuasca.
All of the above, except Ecstacy, can lead you on a hellish trip in certain circumstances. Hallucinogenics are AMPLIFIERS. They amplify your mental state. This can lead to insights, even though the insights are not always pleasant.
For this reason, I dont think they are good RECREATIONAL drugs. They are more a tool for inner-exploration.
[/quote]
Agreed, DO NOT lump hallucinogens with hard drugs. Ecstacy can lead you to a hellish trip, if you are in a scary situation with an over active imagination…be careful. But hallucinogens can help find oneself and for solving emotional problems.
[quote]
Sitter’s can CALM people down, explain to them what really is going on and can guide a trip.
[quote]
QFT
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Yes, for making the mistake to start with. Most people can get away with it, some cannot. You don’t know until you put the gun to your head and pull the trigger.
Down playing the dangers is idiotic. [/quote]
I am sorry for your friend. But you are also up playing the dangers of drugs, I’m not saying live on the edge and keep trying drugs until you become addicted. I am saying that everything has its dangers and you must find the pro’s and con’s.
I think everyone should try recreational drugs, just to experience the joy/pleasure that they may not have known was possible. I believe that once you feel these feelings, you can come closer to reaching them without drugs.
I’ve tried a lot of drugs, and although they were all great, I never once felt any feeling of addiction. A lot of them I’ve only used once. I do know guys that got addicted to coke after their first time, but to be honest those guys were fucking idiots. It was obvious before they even tried the drug that they would one day be addicted to it.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
anonym wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.
I’m not entirely sure as to how this could come about, either, but so far as my experiences with hallucinogens is concerned: it’s impossible to adequately explain to someone what it means to “trip” on certain drugs or to explain your experiences in a way that will do them justice…
because in many cases, you are, in every sense of the phrase, “out of your fucking mind”…you just can’t explain the hopeless insanity of a bad trip to someone who has never strayed from the realm of the sane.
I would say it’s completely unimaginable to those who have never actually tried it (it gives you a little more perspective, that’s for damn sure).
So, while I admit I couldn’t guess the exact mechanisms as to how it could occur, I will say that the extent to which your sanity can be flung out of the ballpark is such that I’m not entirely surprised some never fully find their way back.
I’ve never done them, so I wouldn’t know. Still not sure if I want to try, but I’m thinking not.[/quote]
To be fair, it isn’t always as dismal as my post may have made it seem. A lot of people (I daresay most) have a great time on hallucinogens.
It’s just that, in my opinion, things can - and, on some occasions, do - go wrong very quick, and I’m not at all surprised that there are some rare folks out there who just aren’t built to handle the stress of a trip gone bad.
[quote]anonym wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
anonym wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He isn’t permantly insane but he has never recovered either. He is a functioning person but he is not the same guy he was.
I’m certainly not saying this isn’t possible, as I have no idea. I am very curious as to how a recreational drug can casue insanity, to any degree. That’s just strange.
I’m not entirely sure as to how this could come about, either, but so far as my experiences with hallucinogens is concerned: it’s impossible to adequately explain to someone what it means to “trip” on certain drugs or to explain your experiences in a way that will do them justice…
because in many cases, you are, in every sense of the phrase, “out of your fucking mind”…you just can’t explain the hopeless insanity of a bad trip to someone who has never strayed from the realm of the sane.
I would say it’s completely unimaginable to those who have never actually tried it (it gives you a little more perspective, that’s for damn sure).
So, while I admit I couldn’t guess the exact mechanisms as to how it could occur, I will say that the extent to which your sanity can be flung out of the ballpark is such that I’m not entirely surprised some never fully find their way back.
I’ve never done them, so I wouldn’t know. Still not sure if I want to try, but I’m thinking not.
To be fair, it isn’t always as dismal as my post may have made it seem. A lot of people (I daresay most) have a great time on hallucinogens.
It’s just that, in my opinion, things can - and, on some occasions, do - go wrong very quick, and I’m not at all surprised that there are some rare folks out there who just aren’t built to handle the stress of a trip gone bad.[/quote]
I like the idea of testing myself, and honestly think I can handle it, but what the hell do I know? What would be the safe way to go about this, should one be so inclined? Mushrooms?
[quote]SeanT wrote:
{quote]Vicomte wrote:
Can someone in the know explain if and how LSD can make someone permanently insane?
Although it is VERY rare, you can have a psychotic break. It generally has to do with extreme paranoia and having hallucinations. If the person had a trip sitter, then the chance of this happens is near 0.
entheogens wrote:
All that said, I wouldn’t touch cocaine, opioids, crack, etc with a ten-foot pole.
That’s understandable, everybody has their limits.[/quote]
Acid fucks with your brain chemistry. It is not something to be taken lightly.
It’s also some of the the most fun I’ve ever had.
If you take too much, or you are already unstable or pissed off, the drug will amplify a lot of those negative feelings which can make you physically (or mentally) ill.
Also, if you start taking it frequently, your brain will get fucked up, I imagine your brain just gets sick of the interference and tries to adapt. I knew a guy once… it wasn’t pretty.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I like the idea of testing myself, and honestly think I can handle it, but what the hell do I know? What would be the safe way to go about this, should one be so inclined? Mushrooms?[/quote]
I’m not suggesting you take drugs, it’s your choice. But here’s some common sense:
If you are so inclined, find someone you trust who has tripped before, and ask them to do it with you the first time. And take a reasonable dose.
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
SeanT wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Can someone in the know explain if and how LSD can make someone permanently insane?
Although it is VERY rare, you can have a psychotic break. It generally has to do with extreme paranoia and having hallucinations. If the person had a trip sitter, then the chance of this happens is near 0.
Acid fucks with your brain chemistry. It is not something to be taken lightly.
It’s also some of the the most fun I’ve ever had.
If you take too much, or you are already unstable or pissed off, the drug will amplify a lot of those negative feelings which can make you physically (or mentally) ill.
Also, if you start taking it frequently, your brain will get fucked up, I imagine your brain just gets sick of the interference and tries to adapt. I knew a guy once… it wasn’t pretty.[/quote]
I’m not saying take it lightly, NO Hallucinogen should be taken lightly. If you are in a good environment with a good vibe and a trust trip sitter, it is rare to have a bad trip.
You shouldn’t do any hallucinogens when you are unstable or pissed off.
You CAN’T TAKE ACID FREQUENTLY!
[quote]BROWN UNIVERSITY
(Health Promotion | Brown University |)
Because LSD users develop extreme tolerance to LSD rapidly, the drug cannot be abused for more than a few consecutive days, preventing the kind of physical and psychological dependence associated with other drugs. This tolerance usually goes away after a week or so of abstinence from the drug.
[/quote]
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I like the idea of testing myself, and honestly think I can handle it, but what the hell do I know? What would be the safe way to go about this, should one be so inclined? Mushrooms?[/quote]
My first experience with hallucinogens was with mushrooms (I don’t count pot as some might), and I have nothing bad to say about it.
What you have to understand is that your sense of safety and comfort will play a huge role in how you will experience your trip. Having a bad trip can be a shitty time (to say the least), but it is in large part avoidable so long as you are in a comfortable setting around people you trust and whose company you enjoy (or alone, if that’s what you prefer).
Your mentality going into your trip will play a role, as well - if you feel stressed about it, scared, or nervous, then it is probably a good idea to hold off until you feel more comfortable with the idea of tripping. Going into it with confidence and the intent to relax and just have a good time is, in my mind, necessary.
Also, clear your schedule the day of the trip - particularly if you are doing mushrooms. It’s a time commitment, and there’s no sense in tripping with the knowledge that you have to work in a few hours or that your parents are going to want to sit around the dinner table and talk talk to you about how your day was.
Basically, if you are cool with the idea of tripping, what it comes down to is determining what the most comfortable, stress-free situation would be for you.
For me, this involves being home alone (which, nowadays, is a rarity). I credit my first freakout to being around other people (granted, it was salvia, as well, which a lot of people have a bad time with).
Provided you take care of the above (and do some additional research to set your mind at ease), I don’t doubt that you will have a solid experience.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ridiculous. Why would anyone need a spotter? What the hell does a spotter do except make sure he doesn’t play in traffic? A spotter cannot fix his altered brain chemistry. A spotter cannot restore his sanity.
You refuse to recognize the true danger.[/quote]
Wrong, in a bad trip situation a sitter can make all the difference. Its more than possible than to talk someone out of a bad trip even turn a bad trip into a pleasant one.
Hell, if your experienced enough you could do it yourself. And by experience I don’t mean having tripped 283874974 times, I mean really know what your doing, to really know the drug and yourself.
I’m sorry your friend’s sitter didn’t know what he was doing but if it had been me watching him, I guarantee
you that he would still be sane.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Coke is still a reasonably soft drug compared to some of the other shit out there.
That’s idiotic.
Cocaine is a hard drug that can and will kill you. If you think that’s a soft drug, you must be one hardcore needle usin’ motherfucker.
Or just a stupid kid.[/quote]
That is exactly what I was just thinking. A soft drug??? Are you kidding me?
[quote]Slay the Dragon wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Ridiculous. Why would anyone need a spotter? What the hell does a spotter do except make sure he doesn’t play in traffic? A spotter cannot fix his altered brain chemistry. A spotter cannot restore his sanity.
You refuse to recognize the true danger.
Wrong, in a bad trip situation a sitter can make all the difference. Its more than possible than to talk someone out of a bad trip even turn a bad trip into a pleasant one. Hell, if your experienced enough you do it yourself. And by experience I don’t mean having tripped 283874974 times, I mean really know what your doing, to really know the drug and yourself.
I’m sorry your friend’s sitter didn’t know what he was doing but if it had been me watching him, I guarantee
you that he would still be sane. [/quote]
I am sorry but why the fuck, as an adult, would you do something that would make you require a “sitter”? This thread is seriously disturbing to me.
I have done a number of drugs. The only things I have not tried were coke, meth, heroin, pcp, or anything most drug people would consider a hard drug, whatever that means.
Thus far, my conclusions are as follows.
Weed is basically like alcohol combined with smoking. Some people like to drink and some people like to blaze. It’s pretty much the same.
Hallucinogens make up some of the most spiritual and amazing experiences of my life. That said, they are not right for everyone or even in every setting. Rigorous caution must be exercised when deciding when to use these powerful chemicals.
These two classes of drugs make up the safest illegals with the least potential for addition.
I have also tried amphetamines once, but will not repeat the experience. I was very drunk and so my judgment was impaired. Funny how drugs can do that.
The scene surrounding drug use is as varied as drugs themselves. Find a smart, safe crowd and you will more than likely be fine.
All of the same things can be said of drinking, so I’m not sure why everyone makes such a huge distinction. By far and away I know more people who ruined their lives with
alcohol than drugs.
[quote]MsM wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Coke is still a reasonably soft drug compared to some of the other shit out there.
That’s idiotic.
Cocaine is a hard drug that can and will kill you. If you think that’s a soft drug, you must be one hardcore needle usin’ motherfucker.
Or just a stupid kid.
That is exactly what I was just thinking. A soft drug??? Are you kidding me?[/quote]
since this thread is dying anyways. Coke is deffinately a hard drug, and dangerous at that, I’ve seen what it’s done to people in my own life. But it’s still not meth or heroin.