T Nation

Experiences w/ High Frequency Training

First, for this thread, high frequency training means 4 or more days weekly. Yes daring not to respect the 48 hours “needed rest”.
Maybe we can pool our personal experiences together, it might be to get bigger, stronger and or leaner. I remember an article a few months back about doing 10 000 kettlebell swings in 10 days for body composition transformation. I know the subject is not new but i started yesterday so i will be able to contribute and i would appreciate your input.
I did 6 sets of 9 reps pulldown. My plan is to do 5 days for 1 or 2 weeks and than 6 days adding 1 rep daily till about 72. I might than alternate 6 sets of 12, 12 sets of 6.

In 13 months i might only go to the gym 6 months, invest the $ saved in a weight vest so i can train in the park, push-ups, chin-ups, squats(i have no room for a home gym and i like the outdoors). I hope 3-4 months will bring my chin-ups to a decent #.
I read some on the subject to avoid pitfalls. Here is a CW article

I will keep my training as it was but obviously substitute this part for how i was training similar exercise.

Past 6 months i’ve trained 6 days a week, squatted 3-5 days a week, deadlifted at least once a week. Squat and deadlift have both gone up by about 50 pounds, have gained a measly 5lbs of muscle weight, but… it shows.

Its possible i could make better progress by training less but i have absolutely nothing to do outside of work and i have an excellent gym a block away from my apartment.

hftmuscle.com

For the past few months I have been squatting 1-2 times a day everyday. The past week or two I finally ironed out the scheduling. In those 2 weeks I have been testing out training 3 times a week with bench work as the second workout in the day. I am a student at home, so it is not too hard. I have gained about 40 pounds on my squat hitting a PR. I was coming off of a non powerlifting focus also during most of those few months I was focused on Olympic lifting.

I do not believe in over training as long as you have no extra stress and can get adequate sleep and nutrition. I think most natural lifters will thrive off of a high frequency system for strength and hypertrophy purposes. I would say 5-6 times a week is best.

Since this is in the beginners forum, for beginners I do not know if this is best. I would wait until there is a tolerance to DOMS and a pretty good base of strength and hypertrophy. So let the newbie gains run out and then slowly up the frequency.

In the case of bodyweight work, I’ve found that high frequency works well. If you want to be able to do more chinups, just do as many as you can whenever you have a chance.

Take a look at the “grease the groove” method by Pavel Tsatsouline. If I remember right, he described it in his book “The Naked Warrior”. (But I’ve read a handful of his books; might be the wrong book.)

Now, in the case of muscle hypertrophy, I’m going to stick with the (48-72) hours rest approach.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Take a look at the “grease the groove” method by Pavel Tsatsouline. If I remember right, he described it in his book “The Naked Warrior”. (But I’ve read a handful of his books; might be the wrong book.)[/quote]

I think it was “power to the people”. The Naked Warrior is about pistol squats and one arm press ups.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Now, in the case of muscle hypertrophy, I’m going to stick with the (48-72) hours rest approach.[/quote]

Many things work.

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Take a look at the “grease the groove” method by Pavel Tsatsouline. If I remember right, he described it in his book “The Naked Warrior”. (But I’ve read a handful of his books; might be the wrong book.)[/quote]

I think it was “power to the people”. The Naked Warrior is about pistol squats and one arm press ups.[/quote]

Heh, I guess it’s in both books.

My personal experience shows it an effective technique for bodyweight training, from both a strength and endurance standpoint.

Thanks for all the input.
About hftmuscle.com i get CW newsletter and i will not buy it since recently i read a poster saying it might be worth 5$ he felt taken. I read get huge 2 times where he writes about it plus a few articles here. About Pavel Tsatsouline i will look for it at a librairy.

Recently i did 6 days weekly abs to build up to 10 min. non-stop than i felt a plateau. I switched to work-work-off and now i can do 16 min.
Today was 5 sets ot 11.

Love high frequency training, but I would NOT recommend it to beginners because:

a) they have no bloody idea how to control loads and as load control and programming is one of the most important factors–and as even intermediates have trouble listening to their body–this makes it unsuitable for most beginners unless following a pre-written program such as Starting strength or something (not a big fan of Starting strength, but you get my drift)

b) beginners have a tendency to overwork themselves if they are motivated–this goes hand in hand with point “a”. High frequency is not forgiving of overwork, and a motivated beginner could potentially try to “shotgun” things like doing 5x5 squats with deadlifts and bench and goodmornings and tricep extensions and hamstring curls and lunges and overhead press 5x a week. Not a good recipe.

Better IMO to give beginners some good volume 2x a week (like an upper/lower split 4 days a week, or WSB or something) than try high frequency off the bat. That way the motivated ones can work themselves into the ground on a heavy day and still recover for the next workout, and the unmotivated ones can learn what hard work is.

That being said, I know firsthand that many olympic lifters from the Russian school of thought will squat 4x a week at 5x5 volume. My brother does this as his coach is from the former USSR. He has 2 front squat and 2 back squat days. “deload” days when he is feeling sore and slow are “only” 3x3 hahaha.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Love high frequency training, but I would NOT recommend it to beginners because:

a) they have no bloody idea how to control loads and as load control and programming is one of the most important factors–and as even intermediates have trouble listening to their body–this makes it unsuitable for most beginners unless following a pre-written program such as Starting strength or something (not a big fan of Starting strength, but you get my drift)

b) beginners have a tendency to overwork themselves if they are motivated–this goes hand in hand with point “a”. High frequency is not forgiving of overwork, and a motivated beginner could potentially try to “shotgun” things like doing 5x5 squats with deadlifts and bench and goodmornings and tricep extensions and hamstring curls and lunges and overhead press 5x a week. Not a good recipe.

Better IMO to give beginners some good volume 2x a week (like an upper/lower split 4 days a week, or WSB or something) than try high frequency off the bat. That way the motivated ones can work themselves into the ground on a heavy day and still recover for the next workout, and the unmotivated ones can learn what hard work is.

That being said, I know firsthand that many olympic lifters from the Russian school of thought will squat 4x a week at 5x5 volume. My brother does this as his coach is from the former USSR. He has 2 front squat and 2 back squat days. “deload” days when he is feeling sore and slow are “only” 3x3 hahaha. [/quote]

i disagree if anything beginers should train more frequently not less. i dont get your first point most beginers should be following a pre-written program.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Love high frequency training, but I would NOT recommend it to beginners because:

a) they have no bloody idea how to control loads and as load control and programming is one of the most important factors–and as even intermediates have trouble listening to their body–this makes it unsuitable for most beginners unless following a pre-written program such as Starting strength or something (not a big fan of Starting strength, but you get my drift)

b) beginners have a tendency to overwork themselves if they are motivated–this goes hand in hand with point “a”. High frequency is not forgiving of overwork, and a motivated beginner could potentially try to “shotgun” things like doing 5x5 squats with deadlifts and bench and goodmornings and tricep extensions and hamstring curls and lunges and overhead press 5x a week. Not a good recipe.

Better IMO to give beginners some good volume 2x a week (like an upper/lower split 4 days a week, or WSB or something) than try high frequency off the bat. That way the motivated ones can work themselves into the ground on a heavy day and still recover for the next workout, and the unmotivated ones can learn what hard work is.

That being said, I know firsthand that many olympic lifters from the Russian school of thought will squat 4x a week at 5x5 volume. My brother does this as his coach is from the former USSR. He has 2 front squat and 2 back squat days. “deload” days when he is feeling sore and slow are “only” 3x3 hahaha. [/quote]

i disagree if anything beginers should train more frequently not less. i dont get your first point most beginers should be following a pre-written program.

[/quote]

My first point was precisely that–most beginners SHOULD be following a pre-written program…and as there are extremely few high frequency prewritten programs–AND, as beginners have an inability to properly program loading, exercise selection, and volume on their own–these two factors make high frequency training not suitable to beginners.

I do not consider 2 leg days a week (or bench days, or back days) high frequency. I do not consider 3x weekly whole body workouts to be true high frequency programs (stuff like TBT, starting strength etc). I think upper/lower splits hitting each twice a week, or 3x weekly whole body sessions are perfectly fine for beginners.

Unless they are under the guidance of a coach, I do not think squatting/deadlifting/benching or anyyhing else 4 or more times a week is suitable for a beginner, for reasons stated above. Not sure where your confusion comes in.

Aragorn thanks for your input. I am 55 yo and i like to train so i will push myself trough soreness but not bad pain. I train to stay fit and young so the heavy nor the physique forum realy target me. I could have posted in the over 35 but those with many years of lifting are more likely to have joints issues so less incline to train over 3 times weekly the same body part in my opinion.

Generaly i agree that a beginner can make gains safely with under 4 times weekly. I felt this forum would be better to get a conversation going with enough contributors to learn wich is why i started this thread. About 2 days ago there was an article from Ben Bruno “An Unnamed Single Leg Gem of an Exercise”. I like the idea of training at home or in the park(this way i can train about 75 minutes 6 days, split in 2 sessions).

Yesterday i did 4 sets of 14, today i plan on more sets, and rest tomorrow.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Love high frequency training, but I would NOT recommend it to beginners because:

a) they have no bloody idea how to control loads and as load control and programming is one of the most important factors–and as even intermediates have trouble listening to their body–this makes it unsuitable for most beginners unless following a pre-written program such as Starting strength or something (not a big fan of Starting strength, but you get my drift)

b) beginners have a tendency to overwork themselves if they are motivated–this goes hand in hand with point “a”. High frequency is not forgiving of overwork, and a motivated beginner could potentially try to “shotgun” things like doing 5x5 squats with deadlifts and bench and goodmornings and tricep extensions and hamstring curls and lunges and overhead press 5x a week. Not a good recipe.

Better IMO to give beginners some good volume 2x a week (like an upper/lower split 4 days a week, or WSB or something) than try high frequency off the bat. That way the motivated ones can work themselves into the ground on a heavy day and still recover for the next workout, and the unmotivated ones can learn what hard work is.

That being said, I know firsthand that many olympic lifters from the Russian school of thought will squat 4x a week at 5x5 volume. My brother does this as his coach is from the former USSR. He has 2 front squat and 2 back squat days. “deload” days when he is feeling sore and slow are “only” 3x3 hahaha. [/quote]

i disagree if anything beginers should train more frequently not less. i dont get your first point most beginers should be following a pre-written program.

[/quote]

My first point was precisely that–most beginners SHOULD be following a pre-written program…and as there are extremely few high frequency prewritten programs–AND, as beginners have an inability to properly program loading, exercise selection, and volume on their own–these two factors make high frequency training not suitable to beginners.

I do not consider 2 leg days a week (or bench days, or back days) high frequency. I do not consider 3x weekly whole body workouts to be true high frequency programs (stuff like TBT, starting strength etc). I think upper/lower splits hitting each twice a week, or 3x weekly whole body sessions are perfectly fine for beginners.

Unless they are under the guidance of a coach, I do not think squatting/deadlifting/benching or anyyhing else 4 or more times a week is suitable for a beginner, for reasons stated above. Not sure where your confusion comes in.[/quote]

its alright i get what you were saying, its just our defintions of high frequency are a little different.

Yesterday, 58 Reps in 5 sets, today, 59 in 6. So far, so good.

This is a positive experience if anyone wants to try it. I am increasing my load, today was 64 reps.