T Nation

Experienced Gear Users & Diet Experts Wanted!!


#1

Hey guys, been reading countless threads, articles and stickies trying to gain some info to answer this dilemma of mine. Please indicate if answering from experience or given. Thanks.

Currently 12 weeks out from an event and I would like to be as close as competition condition as possible (5-8% Bf). 6 months ago I was in this condition (173lbs @ 7% Bf) and decided to steadily bulk to where I am now (216 @ 13-15% Bf).

Due to a shoulder injury I had 2 years ago, my chest has not been able to catch up with the rest of my body to the standard I would like (Shoulder has been fully recovered for 11 months now after therapy). It has been growing at an awesome rate but so has the rest of my body and I would just like a little more to be perfectly satisfied with my physique (isnâ??t that what we all want?).

Besides my chest, I am more than happy with the rest of my size and would like to go into maintenance after this event because of numerous reasons (girlfriend and family donâ??t want me any bigger, tons of clothing that doesnâ??t fit, doc complaining, etc.)

This brings up my question (sorry for the monologue). Would it be more beneficial to hit my chest very hard for 2 weeks on high amounts of short estered gear OR begin to cut with the exception of 1-2 chest days throughout the week with very high cals and short estered gear then begin to cut right after and forget about ever bulking again.

I figured this might confuse you so let me portray what I had in mind.

Option 1:
Week 1&2
150mg Test Acetate ED
100mg Drol ED
20mg Dbol ED
50mg Tren Acetate ED (MAYBE)
20mg Nolva ED

Week 3-9
250mg Test E/wk
25mg Tren Ace ED

Week 10-12
Comp Prep


Option 2:
Week 1-9
Test E 250mg/wk
Tren Ace 25mg ED

CHEST DAYS
150-200mg Test Ace
50-100mg Tren Ace (MAYBE)
100-150mg Anadrol
20-30mg Dbol
20mg Nolva (MAYBE)

Week 10-12
Comp Prep


Logic behind Option 1:
This is my first post but Iâ??ve been lurking for years but finally came to a plateau where I felt I needed to ask a question. Iâ??ve realized many people ask before searching up and I assure Iâ??m the complete opposite. Naturally a healthy male can gain approx 1-2lbs of muscle a week. I donâ??t know how much a pound of muscle would look on a muscle but I know I would be ecstatic to add 4lbs on my chest in the 2 weeks lol. My logic behind the 2 week blast, as some may call it, is a protocol Iâ??ve been following for about 3 years now. It was brought to my attention by Bill Roberts and it is by far the most optimal way for my body to see rapid gains in a short amount of time with minimal sides. Again I repeat, my body. Before cycling I was 5â??11 & 156lbs. I was a high school basketball player and ridiculously conditioned, I also ran cross country in the off season. I put â??MAYBEâ?? next to the Tren dose because I see very good results at less than 200mg/wk and anything over I canâ??t sleep (I appreciate my sleep). I hope this is enough explanation behind my logic, if you have no knowledge in the 2 week protocol please find another thread to comment on.

Logic behind Option 2:
I came to this protocol after reading a lot about â??pulsingâ?? oral steroids. Most people partake in this protocol for less sides or the pump but thatâ??s not what Iâ??m concerned of. I want to know if this protocol does show a significant amount of muscle growth or recovery. I do not want to put extra stress on my body for simply a pump. Also will it cause growth if throughout the week Iâ??m in a calorie deficit not including my chest days. I will having a high fat/low carb diet on my non chest days to hopefully add sensitivity to carbs on my chest days. I put a maybe next to Nolva because I know the plasma levels peak after 5 hours but I do not know if one day will make a significant change in my estrogen levels (in regards to bloat and gyno). Additionally every compound will be split and administered in 2 doses (AM & PreWorkout)


Stats & Cycle History

5â??11
216 @ 13-15% Bf
25

Longest Cycle: 20 weeks
Shortest: 2 weeks
Duration of cycling: 5 years
Time on = Time off
Full Panel Blood work done before, during, and after every cycle (Only costs me 25US)

Compounds Previously Used (with max dose ever ran)
Test Ace, Prop, Enth (800mg/wk MAX)
Tren Ace, Enth (400mg/wk MAX)
Deca (300mg/wk MAX)
Equipoise (1000mg/wk MAX)
Anadrol (100mg ED MAX)
Dbol (30mg ED MAX)
Winny (50mg ED MAX)


PLEASE DO NOT COME ON HERE AND CRITICIZE IF YOU LACK ANY SOURCES TO FOLLOW YOUR CLAIM. Iâ??VE BEEN TRAINING WITH COMPETITORS IN MY GYM FOR YEARS AND MY UNCLE COMPETES AS WELL (@46). Iâ??VE BEEN INTRIGUED IN THIS SCIENCE WAY BEFORE I EVER STARTED GEAR AND WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND MY KNOWLEDGE ON IT EACH AND EVERY DAY POSSIBLE. WE ARE ALL HERE TO LEARN. THANK YOU.


#2

Bump! Really want to hear some opinions and advice!


#3

Bump!


#4

it's highly unlikely that you will put on any measurable mass on your chest in just two weeks..

correct me if im wrong.. but the way im reading what you have written, your contest prep is only weeks 10-12? 3 weeks for contest prep?

what I would suggest, if you really are 12-13% bodyfat as you claim to be, begin your contest prep now at 12 weeks out.

weeks 1-12 (week 12 being final week before show)
test E 250mg EOD
letro 2.5mg EOD

weeks 4-12
tren ace 75mg EOD
masteron prop 100mg 3x week
winstrol 50mg EOD

add in halotestin 30mg ED last 3 weeks if you can

final week change letro, tren ace, and winstrol dosing to ED.

-test E never gets dropped from cycle, neither does masteron (which begins at 8 weeks out)

shoulder injuries are tough, ive worked around mine through floor pressing, both BB and DB for chest


#5

It's been ridiculously tough man. I ended up saving some cash and getting therapy done due to my insurance not covering it.

Thanks for the suggstion. I've cut down significantly in 3 weeks with the use of Tren/Winny/Masteron/Letro so getting in that condition isn't an issue for me. I actually believe I might be a little lower bodyfat with just a decent amount of water retention. I get my panel results this week so I'll check how my E2 levels come out.

I would just like to know if with that amount of gear in two weeks would my muscle recovery be much faster thus being able to train EOD with significant growth.

Or if growth can even be obtained in my second option
Mon-Fri: High Protein/High Fats/Low Carb - Slight Calorie Deficit
Sat-Sun: High Protein/Low Fats/ High Carb - 1000+ Calorie Surplus

**With Saturday being Chest day and adding in a large amount of gear throughout that one day.

I really don't want to believe both options won't give men any results. If not there must be an alteration or if any has a better alternative please inform me. Thanks.

Chizeled


#6

These "short blast cycles" and oral pulsing were advocated with the objective of minimizing hpta supression. I do not understand why you are considering them in context of your situation.


#7

never make the mistake of thinking that you're just carrying around a lot of water.. that never ends well

and no.. 2 weeks is not enough time to really build any muscle.. you may get increased glycogen retention which will result in increased intramuscular water retention, but an appreciable amount of new lean tissue in two weeks?

im sorry that's not what you want to hear.. but that's how it works.


#8

Appreciate the response and when you put in that perspective it truly brings out the fault in my theory. I understand now my first option is illogical.

What do you think about my second option? Pulsing the gear once a week on the same day as my chest day. Will also eat low carbs throughout the week to be as sensitive as possible on the day I hit chest as well as the day after (recovery purposes). I can even try it twice a week if you think once a week(for 8-10 weeks) isn't enough to see significant growth.

Lastly what do you mean by the mistake of the water retention?

P.S. I'm sorry if I'm being a bit stubborn. Don't feel obligated to answer this post. Thanks.

Chizeled


#9

if I understand you correctly, you are planning on doing this during a prep phase for a contest? if that's the case, little to no growth is likely to occur at all, as you will be in a calorie deficit.

as for pulsing the gear, that won't work either.. and will only result in unstable hormone levels.. you really seem to be stuck on this.

why not get some insulin and pin 10-15 units of hum-R 20 minutes pre-workout and have 80g of the correct type of carbs and a quality protein source like EAA's, 20g or so during your workout on chest days? that would definitely be helpful..but should be saved for offseason.

as for the water retention comment...people often over estimate how lean they are because they consider their adipose tissue (fat) to be water..

"nah bro, im not fat, im just carrying a lot of water"... does that sound familiar at all? it's really just fat..


#10

Ahh I understand now. Yes I tend to do the same very often until I run my Adex and wonder why there's still "water" lingering around lol.

Do you know exactly why pulsing wouldn't work? I've read mixed opinions. You believe running such a high amount of gear on the day of will result to no gains? To my understanding a muscle should recover in 48 hours, so if my body is enhanced for those 48 hours only the result will be nothing?

As for the Slin man that stuff scares me to death. I've seen 2 instances in my gym where guys have dropped to the floor trying to avoid consuming too many carbs out of fear of storing some. I have looked into it several times but it just makes me uncomfortable and is really a last resort that seems to slowly become an answer to my goal.

Appreciate all the feedback man honestly. Most people that have more than average knowledge in this science tend to be fricking pricks.

Chizeled


#11

I do not believe that "pulsing" will result in ENHANCED gains.. gains from steroids occur as the steroids are run over the course of a period of time (assuming rest, nutrition, and training are adequate). Run a certain dose consistently, and you will get consistent gains. Run a higher dose for one or two days out of the week, and you will likely achieve very, very little.

also, muscles don't necessarily recover within 48 hours.. sure, they do in literature, but in practice..the results are very different.

insulin is not nearly as dangerous as people make it out to be.. if you were to run insulin in the way I suggested, maybe inject 100mg of test suspension 45 min pre-chest workout (to enhance strength..not necessarily gains), I would suspect you could make something out of it.

trying to "eat as few carbs as needed for fear of 'storing some'" is quite possibly the dumbest thing ive ever heard of..


#12

Yea you're right. I've learned over the years that whatever is written on paper isn't always the result when put in practice. Since I haven't put it into practice I just came up with a logic that appealed to my liking lol.

I'm going to try out your suggestion with preworkout regimen except use Test Acetate instead 3hrs prior cause I can't suspension that doesn't irritate the hell out of me and when I make mines it always crashes. Might add some Drol as well.

Also you'd be surprised how many guys practice theory now after GH15 wrote something on the topic. Said many BB'ers gain too much body fat on the offseason due to fear of not having enough carbs during insulin use. I'll look into the topic more but I know I rather play it safe.

Thanks again for everything man. Much appreciated.

Chizeled