T Nation

Experience with PGCL?


#1

Hello. I have been a lurker here for some time. I usally get my answers from AMIRisSQUAT. But since he has gone on to bigger and better things, I'll turn to you. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? I've been trained for 14 years on and off for different reasons. Mostly injuries. I just ran into an old friend whom has a stash of it and has suggested that I give it a shot. Litterally. I can't find any new posts on it on any forum. But from what I have read it sounds intense. I was recommended to start of at two IM injections's of 25IU's once a day.

At 6'1" 365lbs I'm not a small man by any means so I'm not sure if the dosage is correct. I'm also not a BB. I've trained as a strongman and a powerlifter. I'm looking now to shed weight. Please any input would be greatly, greatly appreciated. I'll keep anyone interested updated.


#2

Never used it myself. What is your intention behind using it? There are two or three different belief’s out there Im curious which one you are pursuing and why?


#3

I need to shed weight. I have a PD academy coming up.


#4

OK Yeah. I know some people out there tried it for gyno with sub-optimal results at best.
Well as you probably know to shed weight its mostly about your diet. While there are products out there which can enhance fatloss/weightloss if your diet is not good nothing will work very well for you. At your weight I must assume unless you’re built like Ronnie Coleman you could stand to lose dozens of lbs of fat and if thats the case taking PGCL or T-3 w/clen or whatever is no maguc bullet and certainly not a substitute for a strict diet as well as general cardio conditioning. Cardio is a very secondary path to weight loss/fatloss. The conditioning aspect is key for you with a PD Academy coming up. Usually you have to do 1.5 miles in like 14 minutes or something. Nothing elite or extreme but that might be difficult at present time for you I dont know. However, you have given yourself a few months to prepare.


#5

You hit the nail right on the head. Ronnie Coleman I am not. I think your being generous with your estimation of only dozens of lbs of body fat. At this point I’m willing to sacrifice strength to make this academy a little easier. I’ve already passed the the PT test which includes the 1.5 mile run you refrenced.

As for the diet, I’ve had to clean it up because of the increase of cardio. Honestly, during my powerlifting days, I thought nothing of heading to Wendy’s for a post workout meal. As much as I was hoping that this was the magic bullet, I know this is going to be just one aspect of reaching my optimal body fat %. Let me ask you, the people you mentioned, did they have any fat loss? It’s also reported that this is 10X’s more anobolic than HGH. Did they see any gains? Thanks again.


#6

[quote]BAbuelo wrote:
You hit the nail right on the head. Ronnie Coleman I am not. I think your being generous with your estimation of only dozens of lbs of body fat. At this point I’m willing to sacrifice strength to make this academy a little easier. I’ve already passed the the PT test which includes the 1.5 mile run you refrenced.

As for the diet, I’ve had to clean it up because of the increase of cardio. Honestly, during my powerlifting days, I thought nothing of heading to Wendy’s for a post workout meal. As much as I was hoping that this was the magic bullet, I know this is going to be just one aspect of reaching my optimal body fat %. Let me ask you, the people you mentioned, did they have any fat loss? It’s also reported that this is 10X’s more anobolic than HGH. Did they see any gains? Thanks again.[/quote]
Ah…a former PL like myself…I thought I detected a kindred spirit.
Anyway, I cannot really say accurately how much of their “success” was due to the PGCL. I have to say little to none honestly. These were guys who were already in pretty good shape, had been taking aas and were getting ready for a BB show. So they were starting from like 10% bodyfat and over the course of several months dieted down. And they threw pretty much the kitchen sink at it. At this point for you I’d recommend a shift in mentality away from and abandoning the search for the magic bullet and onto the mindset of adopting the low carb lifestyle. If you are willing to sacrifice a bit of strength you really can get fast results.
PLing was/is great because its mostly about the lifting. I gravitated away from BB to PL for a few reasons and one to be very honest is that its easier from the diet/lifestyle point of view. If I wanted pizza anytime I had it. Wendy’s like you mentioned, sure.
The key for you moving will be discipline. When I finally decided to really buckle down I once lost 35lbs in 42 days. It was not all fat loss I definitely lost some muscle because I was trying to really do it fast and quick. But the more you weigh the more you have to and can lose. I mean shoot if you watch that show Biggest Loser guys your weight are losing 40lbs+ in the first month so it can be done and is realistic IMO if you are committed. All the “supplement” should probably be saved for once you’ve lost some of the current excess. Think of them as a cherry on top rather than the foundation


#7

Jesus, it’s like you’ve known me for years. Right away you mentioned one of my worst flaws. Discipline. I think your 100% right. I need to put this on the shelf and focus on changing everything that got me to where I am now. Come to think of it, the friend that recommended this to me and got it for me is less than 10% body fat. He was adamant about how it worked for him.

As for the loss of strength, I’m more than willing to sacrifice strength to reach my goals. Can you imagine a 365lbs man completing a 1.5 mile run then making it over a 5’ fence? I need to keep those accomplishments in mind to remind myself that this is in my head and stop looking for the quick fix. Thank you for the sound words of advice. I do appreciate you taking the time to set me on the right track.


#8

Most welcome friend. Yes it is an accomplishment to make it is far as you have for the PD Academy and I wish you well there. I was a corrections deputy for several years myself. As you lose more and more weight your mobility will improve as well as in a certain sense the job will just get easier from a physical standpoint. Once you drop below 300lbs lets say depending on where you’re at and how your strength levels are and where you wanna we, then we could look at some more next level things for you.


#9

PGCL…suppose to be the next great thing…ended up being right next to worthless…you will lose weight alright…through “bowel issues” and dehydration…i have never seen anyone use this stuff and be glad they did


#10

Saps,

PLing & LEO. A lot in common. Again, thank you. Yeah, I really had to push myself to get through the PT. I’m sure it will become a lot easier with the weight loss. As for my strength level, my bench is 425 for a double (a far cry from my 520 days), my squat leaves much to be desired at 495.

I did have a PR of 635 a few years back. And my DL should be at 620. (projected) I’ll know next Wednesday. Again, a far cry from the 800 I’ve pulled in my hay day. Even though these numbers are all raw, at my weight they should be alot more.

Even my PR’s are terrible by today’s standards. Either way, I’m willing to sacrifice what I have to in order to make this academy easier. Any advice you can offer after I meet my body fat goals will be greatly appreciated.

Morepain,

You are the 1st person I have ever read say that this drug is next to worthless. Every forum I’ve read and the handful of people I personally know, have only raved about it’s effectiveness. Please, if you wouldn’t mind elaborating on your post. I do appreciate all in put. Thank you.


#11

effectiveness for what? causing you to shit yourself? if so then yes it is quite effective. Ask anyone to truly QUANTIFY their results in specific terms and all you will get is general terms with no quantifiable results at all after the fact.

As far as the 10 times more anabolic then HGH yeah i have heard that too right off the list of the guy selling it…its a bunch of crap. it is fairly cheap so experiment if you want and then you will know why i say its worthless. Regardless of what a bunch of internet experts try to tell you.


#12

honestly saps has given you great advice on weight loss…cut the excuses…get on a STRICT diet…and if you need a fat burner use something that has been proven t3/clen stacked with HOT-ROX extreme is very effective. DNP if used sensibly works very well but i do not trust anyone on cap dosages which makes it far too dangerous.


#13

[quote]BAbuelo wrote:
You are the 1st person I have ever read say that this drug is next to worthless. Every forum I’ve read and the handful of people I personally know, have only raved about it’s effectiveness. Please, if you wouldn’t mind elaborating on your post. I do appreciate all in put. Thank you.

[/quote]
Well if you read carefully my words above I did say:

[quote]saps wrote:
Anyway, I cannot really say accurately how much of their “success” was due to the PGCL. I have to say little to none honestly. [/quote]
morepain was much more blunt but when I said little to none that was not intended to be a raving endorsement for the product.
Again you have my words, morepain basically re-iterated them. I must be honest when I say I worried about even mentioning the T3-Clen combo to you and now the morepain has also endorsed it [along with HOT-ROX] I fear your search for the magic bullet might continue. Its going to take you at least 4 months under ideal conditions to drop the 100lbs you desire. No one I know has ever run any variation of a T3-Clen protocol for that long consecutively. Keep the focus on diet. Once you drop below 300 then and only then might you wanna consider re-looking at stage 2


#14

I agree completley the fact is you have spent your entire life getting this way don;t be too rough on yourself if you can’t fix it in a few months…just get serious and start working hard on it…time will take care of the rest


#15

No, I wasn’t asking you Saps. I was asking Morepain to clarify his post. Please believe me when I tell you, I’m not the novice I think I may have come across to be. I know know that running any cycle that long is going to have repercussions. My new focus has become diet.


#16

I agree Morepain, it has been a life time of overindulgence that has brought me to this point. But as for this drug, honestly I’ve only heard and read about spot fat loss, spot muscle growth, gyno reduction and yes, the uncontrollable bowel movements. That’s why I was wondering why you felt the way you do?


#17

I know your question was directed at morepain. I chose to chime in because to me you still come across as searching for the magic bullet. Clearly given your lift history you know a thing or thing about a thing or two. However, that was always the beauty of PL, diet isnt strict and does not have to be especially in the weight class you were.

I spent years not caring about diet or bloat. It was only when I came to realize if I got my act together I could lift the same weight at 220 I could at 242 that I buckled down myself.
Also running a “cycle” for months on end is fine. Both morepain and I run variations of the so called blast and cruise. pain’s is more complicated and its not important for details here.

But yes, there will be aas flowing thru my veins everyday in 2010. Those “cycles” are fine. What’s not fine is running some version of fat burning compound combo for months on end.
Like mp said, it took years to condition your habits it will be a bit of a challenge to re-learn eating habits and yes it will take awhile. Dont be too hard on self, its ok to take 2 steps forward and one step back


#18

Clearly I still have a lot to learn. I’ve already made up my mind that your advice of keeping the clean diet and staying focused on that is the place to start. I’m not sure when I’ll attempt this drug. Maybe at the 300lbs mark. As for my search for the magic bullet, Ponce de Leon I’m not. Your warning has sunk in to my thick skull. But I can dream. Again, a million thanks. Both of you.


#19

As Morepain mentioned, there is always an option of using DNP (2,4-dinitrophenol). It is an uncoupler of the H+ gradient required to generate ATP (energy molecules). It instead produces heat. As morepain said as well, though, that it is very dangerous if used improperly. VERY dangerous.

People have died from “overheating”. You have to drink a lot of fluids, and be very careful with dosing.

I am by no means suggesting it. I believe, along with the others, that you should dial down your diet and other factors first and foremost.

As for PGCL, I have no experience or even bro-anecdotes so I cannot comment.


#20

[quote]BAbuelo wrote:
Clearly I still have a lot to learn. I’ve already made up my mind that your advice of keeping the clean diet and staying focused on that is the place to start. I’m not sure when I’ll attempt this drug. Maybe at the 300lbs mark. As for my search for the magic bullet, Ponce de Leon I’m not. Your warning has sunk in to my thick skull. But I can dream. Again, a million thanks. Both of you.[/quote]

It still is mildly bothersome to me to still hear your radar focusing on “this drug.” T3-Clen has a much more established and accredited success track. I’d totally forgot about PGCL and I would not advise you to look at DNP either, not at the 300lb mark certainly.
So forget about dreaming, live the reality of low carbs, its pretty rough at times and you dont wanna beat yourself up mentally by using your energy and resource focusing on anything other than your diet