T Nation

Experience on Gels and Shots

There was once a time when I was a totally close minded and jerk of a poster who in addition to acting inappropriately on several forums here, used to express my thought that gel was superior to shots even though I did not use shots. I guess some men take time to grow up and open their minds, me being one of them.

Anyway, about a year and a half ago I switched to shots because, despite putting on a shirt after my nightly application of Testim, some testosterone transferred to my fiance. I found putting Testim on in the morning inconvenient and during the blazing heat wave we had in the summer of 2013, we New Yorkers would sweat just taking a walk outside and I felt remnants of the gel on my body mixed with the sweat, which was not good for absorption either.

I felt pretty good on gels, and my values were regularly at 700 to 1000 ng/dl, with the occasional value of 500 or so. However, at times, even when T was normal, I felt as if something was off or missing and although my libido and sexual functioning was very strong at times, it was not as consistent as pre-TRT.

My prescription for injections is 100 mg testosterone cypionate per week. I usually inject subcutaneously with a tuberculin syringe but now and then will do IM because I have god knows how many prescribed syringes here and I don’t want to wastefully throw them out. I have no problems with IM once per week, never had any scar tissue or bruising.

I have felt no swings with once per week injections. Almost every time my levels were checked mid week or past mid week since last injection they measured in the mid-700’s to mid-800’s. Libido and functioning has been far better with injections! I have used no HCG during the past year and a half. I am waiting on my 9,000 IU per week script for fertility (off TRT while I will take this), but my friend gave me some spare stuff and I have been using 250 IU two times per week while I wait for the script.

I was concerned with the peaks and valleys with injections but I have not experienced anything bad.

Anyone else try both?

Many of us need to grow up at some point in our lives.
Your story sounds like mine. You’ll be a better man for it !

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
Many of us need to grow up at some point in our lives.
Your story sounds like mine. You’ll be a better man for it ![/quote]

Thanks!

You had a better experience with injections? How often do you inject?

9000iu/week hCG is not right. 250iu SC EOD provides a replacement dose for LH receptors. Too much hCG is $$$, can create large amounts of T–>E2 inside the testes and can desensitize the testes.

Are your fertility concerns short term for a pregnancy soon or long term?

Your experience with T gels might have been from too much E2.

Standard protocol suggested here:
100mg T cyp/eth per week, most will do better with 50mg x2
250iu hCG SC EOD
1mg anastrozole per week in EOD doses or twice a week at time of injections

  • see protocol for injections sticky for more details

Also see advice for new guys sticky.

Insulin syringes might be better price? Many states do not require Rx for those. I can see NY as an exception.

I’m new to trt injections, just had my third one this past Sunday. I’ve never tried the gel, but I did take oral 1ad about 15 or so years ago when you could buy it at any supplement store lol.

Already I feel much more energetic and intense with the weights. My doctor prescribed a combination of 100mg/ml test e, 100mg/ml test cyp in two .4 ml (80mg combined) injections per week (160mg total per week) with one .5mg arimidex capsule taken with each injection.

I’ve been taking .3ml (60mg combined) and one arimidex with each shot, on Sunday a.m. and Wednesday p.m. I go back for more bloodwork in a few weeks, so I’ll see how it looks then and possibly adjust from there.

I feel great, though. I am quite curious what my levels are now.

[quote]KSman wrote:
9000iu/week hCG is not right. 250iu SC EOD provides a replacement dose for LH receptors. Too much hCG is $$$, can create large amounts of T–>E2 inside the testes and can desensitize the testes.[/quote]

It can definitely be pricy if not covered by insurance. At the dose you propose it would not be expensive at all, even if not covered, about 80 bucks per month. I am lucky that I have insurance and contribute very little from my weekly salary for it. The thing is my doc has a great rep and he has fixed up everyone I’ve sent him; they all thank the guy up and down. I was just curious about this large dose. He stays on top of things, so we will see how this goes.

[quote]

Are your fertility concerns short term for a pregnancy soon or long term?[/quote]

Yes. I am getting married in July and we don’t want to wait. I am 35 and don’t want to be an old geezer as soon as my kids reach adulthood. I waited long enough to find the right woman.

[quote]

Your experience with T gels might have been from too much E2.[/quote]
I think this might have been the case.

[quote]
Standard protocol suggested here:
100mg T cyp/eth per week, most will do better with 50mg x2
250iu hCG SC EOD
1mg anastrozole per week in EOD doses or twice a week at time of injections

  • see protocol for injections sticky for more details[/quote]

Do you suggest this even if someone feels fine? Or maybe it’s just healthier? Not trying to be a wiseass or anything, just curious as to what’s best. The older I get the more optimal I want my health to be. I guess part of this optimal health plan is dropping the wiseass smart alec attitude I once had.

Oh yeah. I bought some insulin syringes once too. In NY we can get ten of them for a few bucks with no Rx. The nanny-state/jungle of NYC would not hold back on that. :slight_smile:

I did not use the insulin syringes as I couldn’t get the damn 1/2 ml into them. The TB syringe works well.

Thanks!

[quote]The_Jed wrote:
I’m new to trt injections, just had my third one this past Sunday. I’ve never tried the gel, but I did take oral 1ad about 15 or so years ago when you could buy it at any supplement store lol.

Already I feel much more energetic and intense with the weights. My doctor prescribed a combination of 100mg/ml test e, 100mg/ml test cyp in two .4 ml (80mg combined) injections per week (160mg total per week) with one .5mg arimidex capsule taken with each injection.

I’ve been taking .3ml (60mg combined) and one arimidex with each shot, on Sunday a.m. and Wednesday p.m. I go back for more bloodwork in a few weeks, so I’ll see how it looks then and possibly adjust from there.

I feel great, though. I am quite curious what my levels are now.[/quote]

Thanks for post. I am not neurotic about this whole thing really. It’s just I wonder sometimes because I have felt VERY good with simply 100 mg per week provided in one injection with no HCG and no AI.

You might feel even better. Some decent lab work would be useful.

The suggested syringes load slow, injection times are OK.

[quote]KSman wrote:
You might feel even better. Some decent lab work would be useful.

The suggested syringes load slow, injection times are OK.

[/quote]

Last time T was checked it was 821 ng/dl on a Friday after injecting 100 mg on the preceding Sunday. Estradiol was 35.

E2=35 is definitely into the problem zone. You need anastrozole to lower E2. See the protocol in my earlier post in this thread.
*** You may feel a lot better if you get near E2=22pg/ml ***

Anastrozole needs to match T levels and your T levels are swinging even if you don’t feel that. That’s why you would inject T twice a week and take anastrozole at the same time and they will tend to track each other.

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
TSH
CBC

Insulin syringes, ReLion house brand, at Walmart are $14 per 100, so no cost issues there.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
You might feel even better. Some decent lab work would be useful.

The suggested syringes load slow, injection times are OK.

[/quote]

Last time T was checked it was 821 ng/dl on a Friday after injecting 100 mg on the preceding Sunday. Estradiol was 35. [/quote]

Was this the sensitive or standard estradiol test?

If it’s the sensitive test, it could definitely stand to come down a bit. If its the standard test, I wouldn’t worry about that number at all. The standard assay overstates E2 values quite a bit.

[quote]AlwaysUp wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
You might feel even better. Some decent lab work would be useful.

The suggested syringes load slow, injection times are OK.

[/quote]

Last time T was checked it was 821 ng/dl on a Friday after injecting 100 mg on the preceding Sunday. Estradiol was 35. [/quote]

Was this the sensitive or standard estradiol test?

If it’s the sensitive test, it could definitely stand to come down a bit. If its the standard test, I wouldn’t worry about that number at all. The standard assay overstates E2 values quite a bit.[/quote]

And the next guy will say that the Sensitive test over states e2 values. There really isnt a good reliable test for e2 from my readings.

Pick one test. Track how you feel and stay around a number that feels best to you. Don’t chase a specific number from the start.

Quest is more reliable and consistant then LabCorp in my opinion.

You can’t have this conversation without reference to a specific lab company. My reference is the standard E2 test from LabCorp.

I always specify sensitive assay test, however the lab will at times do the standard test. I now have doctors office fax me a copy of the report so I can see the results myself. The labs I did last week did the wrong test but fortunately I caught it before the blood drawn was discarded and added the sensitive test. See results below. I am an over responder to arimidex, these results are from 50mg cypionate and 250iu HCG WITH 1/8mg of Arimidex two times per week.
Labcorp standard test range 7.6-42.6 results 15.2
Labcorp sensitive test range 3-70 results 13

These results are from Lap Corp. I also had LH and FSH done for pre-authorization for HCG and they were low, I mean like nothing.

Oh, wait. That was a mistake. Those were from Quest. I use Lap Corp now because of a new job I got six months ago. By the way, my T values when I came off medicine for pre-authorization were 133 and 113. I felt horrible for two weeks.

if you had been on TRT and only came off for two weeks, the LH and FSH would be low, like zero-ish

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
if you had been on TRT and only came off for two weeks, the LH and FSH would be low, like zero-ish[/quote]

Yup, they were low when I Was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism and even lower when I started TRT. I could have gone with clomid monotherapy but I tried that at first before gels and although it brought T to 790, I didn’t like it. Hence I opted for HCG this time around for fertility.

You might have had the clomid side effect that are estrogenic, some guys have that and doctors are not aware. Nolvadex does not do that.