T Nation

Experience Needed

Where to begin?
I have been researching steroid use for a few months, I’ve read all of Cy’s and the articles on Mesomorphosis, aswell as some Dan Duchaine work and the Anabolics 2002 guide. While i have picked up on a few things, I would still like some feedback on a very effective 1st cycle. My father is a physician so he said he’d do my blood work and liver enzyme work.
Anyways, knowlwdge is one thing. experience is another. So if I could get some one experienced to help me with a 1st cycle I’d appreciate it. If you need any specs let me know.
Thank you in advance.

Tell the board what you can get a hold of, your goals, training history, some stats wouldn’t hurt. Also doing a little more research on this site and then try planning your own cycle and some of the guys on this board will gladly help you fine tune it. Good luck.

Well, I can get just about anything main-stream: Tren, test(prop,cyp, enath), primo-depot, winstrol,sustanon,equipose etc.I can and will also get some clomid.
My goals are to go from 187 to about 210. Im a power lifter and 5’10.
I am not looking at this as some sort of magic bullet, just some extra help.

I was contemplating using primo and Tren 75, since the side effects would be on the low side, but I’ve heard that on a first cycle you should use test to anchor things down. I just dont want to be a bloated 210.

TRaining history and stats:
I bench 315, dealift 505, squat 520 all raw. I’ve been training for 6 years and am a senior in college.

Mako, I wouldn’t use tren on my first cycle…Tren is a very potent compound to say the least and imo should be reserved 4 advanced users. I’ve got 5 cycles under my belt, and haven’t touched it yet.
It seems as though your main priorities are strength,lean muscle accrual,and minimal bloat, but correct me if I’m wrong. With that being said, here’s what I’d suggest given the goals and stats you’ve provided.
week 1:1000mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week2:750mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week3:500mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week4:500mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week5:500mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week6:500mg test enan,30mg anavar ed
week7:500mg test enan,
week8:500mg test enan,
week9:40mg anavar ed, 500iu hcg ed.
weeks10-11:100mg clomid ed
weeks12-13:40mg nolvadex ed
-to ward off bloat/possible gyno, you could run 10mg nolvadex and 1.25mg letrozole eod for weeks1-9, but keep the letrozole at 1.25mg eod throughout pct. Good luck!

MK

My first cycle was test and dbol instead of Anavar, other than that the same, and it was awesome. After a few weeks when the test kicks in, everything explodes.

Thanks, Mike, you went out of your way to help me out, I appreciate it.
I need to speak with my supplier to see how close I can come to your cycle.
One question though, why are the test doses so high? Im not sure, but they just seem a little higher than what I’ve read about.
Does it have to do with the test only being used in conjuction with 1 other drug?

[quote]Mako1983 wrote:
Thanks, Mike, you went out of your way to help me out, I appreciate it.
I need to speak with my supplier to see how close I can come to your cycle.
One question though, why are the test doses so high? Im not sure, but they just seem a little higher than what I’ve read about.
Does it have to do with the test only being used in conjuction with 1 other drug?[/quote]

No prob bro…The test doses are 100% and 50% more the first and second weeks to try and get blood levels up. To tell you the truth, I consider 500mg to be a baseline value that’s not very high when considering many users shoot upwards of a gram of test/wk. If you were using test as a stand alone, I’d have suggested 750mg/wk to be ran, but since I incorporated anavar, I backed off slightly on the test dosage.

MK

Man, I need to ship you a bottle of wine or something.
Ok, the Test explination sounds good to me, but I need to pick your brain just one more time.
If i cant get oxandrolone, what do you think about primobolan depot?
Primo seems biologically cost affective. What are your thoughts.
Once again, thanks, bill me later

[quote]Mako1983 wrote:
Man, I need to ship you a bottle of wine or something.
Ok, the Test explination sounds good to me, but I need to pick your brain just one more time.
If i cant get oxandrolone, what do you think about primobolan depot?
Primo seems biologically cost affective. What are your thoughts.
Once again, thanks, bill me later[/quote]

Bro, the primobolan won’t deliver the type of strength gains that you’ll see w/ anavar, but will accomplish your two other goals(keepable gains and minimal bloat). Priomobolan is frequently counterfit and when you do get your hands on some legit primo, the price/ampoule is at the very least $10…And to get anything out of the primo it needs to be ran at 400mg/wk or more since it’s such a mild steroid. Hence it’s popularity w/ women. So if you do the math, with the best case scenario on pricing, it comes out to be $360 for the primo alone…If you’ve got the money, then go 4 it.
I usually wouldn’t advise this, but if you can’t get anavar, and primo is out of your price range, then winstrol would be my next suggestion.(same amt. and times as the anavar) This is ONLY if your joints are in good shape to begin with, because testosterone actually decreases the strength of your ligaments and tendons, and throwing winstrol on top of that only exaccerbates the damage.
I really think your best bet would be to run the anavar, or else accept that you’ll acquire some bloat and go w/ dianabol.

MK

I’ve been reading your posts and Prisoner22 as well, Im learning much from you both.
Shit, that primo is expensive!
If I can get the anavar, I’ll run it. I’ve had too many fighting injuries to deal with Winstrol, Im an old young man!
If not, I read William Llewellyn’s basic Test and Equi stack, kind of like the one you suggested in a parrallel post.
week 1-10 250mg. equipoise
week 2-10 250mg. Test. Enanthate
week 13 5-7,000 IU HCG
week 14 5,000 IU HCG
Week 15 3,000 IU HCG run clomid along side HCG and 3 weeks after.

I realised you recommended 500mg. of TEST/Equi, is it because of your weight and prior use?
Thanks Bro!

Nah bro he recommends higher dosages of test and EQ for a few different reasons: aas with longer lasting esters take longer to get to useful blood concentrations since you are getting less of the drug over and extended period of time, instead of a lot of it all at one time: reason two is that too low of a dosage even on your first cycle will do nothing but shut down natural production after a while and not give you enough aas in your system to make up for what you have lost and still give you any results.
I know there are other reasons that the guys can help you out with if you need them but just the fact that more than likely you won’t get the results you are looking for on those dosages should be enough.
If you want to use EQ that is fine because it has a lot of the same properties as anavar and on another note it is not as damaging to your liver or kidneys but, you should bump your dosage to 400mg each or better and use a good front load of both at double the weekly dosages for the first 2 weeks of each like how Mike did it for you in the cycle he listed. Also I don’t know about prices where you are at but I know EQ is cheaper here than Anavar for sure.
Well, hope that helps a little and good luck with your journey into the darkside.
DA

Here’s my first cycle designed by P22. I netted almost 25 lbs after PCT. No real sides.

Week 1:
Test ena 1000mg
Test cyp 1000mg
dbol 25 mg ed
letrozole 2.5 eod

Week 2:
Test cyp 1000mg
dbol 25mg ed
letrozole 2.5 eod

Week 3:
Test cyp 1000mg
dbol 25 mg ed
letrozole 2.5 eod

Week 4:
Test ena 500mg
Test cyp 500mg
dbol 25mg ed
letrozole 2.5 eod
Sun. HCG 100iu
Thur. HCG 100iu

Week 5:
Test ena 1000mg
letrozole 2.5 eod

Mon. HCG 100iu
Fri. HCG 100iu

Week 6:
Test ena 1000mg
dbol 25mg ed
letrozole 2.5 eod
Tues. HCG 100iu

Week 7:
S dbol 25mg
M dbol 25mg
T dbol 30mg
w dbol 35mg
T dbol 40mg
F dbol 45mg
S dbol 50mg
letrozole 2.5 eod
Sun. HCG 100iu
Thur. HCG 100iu

Week 8:
S dbol 55mg
M dbol 60mg
T dbol 65mg
W dbol 70mg
T dbol 75mg
F dbol 80mg
S dbol 85mg
letrozole 2.5 eod
Mon. HCG 200iu
Fri. HCG 200iu

Week 9:
Sun. Clomid 300mg
Mon.-Sat. Clomid 100mg
letrozole 2.5 eod

Week 10-17:
Clomid 50mg ed

Dark Angel: Thanks for the input
I understand what your saying. So because the the substances are too long of acting I should spike the dose in order to raise my blood levels sooner. OK
So the first two weeks I’ll hit 800mg on both, then drop down to 400mg, for the remainder.
The anavar is almost as expensive as the primo here!

PAPS: Wow, that sounds like one hell of a cycle. But why did P22 have you on HCG during the cycle? I understand why he had you on different esters of T. How were the sides? It just seems like a lot when you add the d-bol. Im not a pussy about side-effects, Im just predisposed to hella-acne and need to keep it controled.
Thanks

The HCG was to prevent testicular shrinkage. It is very small amounts. The only sides were chronic erections for a couple weeks. Maybe a few more zits, and a slight increase in blood pressure with dbol. I retained a little water, which I could decrease by cutting carbs. I’m much larger than you, 6’5" and out weigh you by 50 lbs. I’m sure he wouldn’t give you the same dosage. Also I lost no hair.