Exercise Physiology...Is this a Joke?

Off Topic
21

[quote]dreads989 wrote:
I’m listening to the professor of my Exercise Physiology class give a lecture online, and I can’t take it anymore. I have to rant.

This class has officially caused me to dread the future Physical Therapists that will be running the country, especially considering that my university is supposed to have one of the best programs in the nation for it. Here are some of the GLORIOUS highlights of this class:

  1. As you try, you don’t improve recruitment, rate coding, or rate frequency of neuronal units. Only neuronal synchronization improves.

  2. A high carb diet is always the best. Period. Bar none. You won’t have energy on a high protein or high fat diet, and you WILL gain the weight back.

  3. Olympic weightlifters don’t perform eccentric exercises b/c they don’t want muscle hypertrophy.

  4. Bodybuilders look strong, but are weak.

  5. Powerlifters are soft/fat, but are strong.

  6. Lifting weights is not an adequate means of cardio

  7. Once you have been weightlifting for an extended period of time, you WILL reach your genetic potential, so progress should be extremely minimal, if any.

  8. Bench press is the single best indicator of upper body strength (I know, debatable, but still)

  9. When squatting, it’s all quads. NO posterior chain involved. At all.

  10. When looking at a male gymnast and a male olympic lifter, the lifter is fat, but the gymnast isn’t. Because olympic lifters don’t have that kind of physique.

  11. You cannot illicit hypertrophy with less then 80% of your 1RM if you are an “experienced” lifter.

  12. No diet will succeed without carbs. Your brain needs them, so cutting them out will be FATAL. (Apparently, ketones are out of the question).

  13. When I asked if 10x3 would illicit hypertrophy just like 3x10, I was told “no, it would not, as you have to train with a 3RM for that. Do you understand?”

I could go on and on. I attend this class with our G.A. Strength Coach (has CSCS, NSCA, B.A. in Biology, nationally ranked powerlifter deadlifting 666 at 181. Has to take this for his R.D. with Sports Nutrition emphasis) and he and I just die. Worst part is that EVERY OTHER student in my physical therapy class eats this up.

I explained two of the aforementioned errors with some of my friends in class, and they told me, “Well, she’s the teacher and you aren’t. I think she knows what she’s doing”.

I used to get ticked when people told me of Physical Therapists being wrong about a ton of things, but now I wonder…

[/quote]

Items number 3 through 6 can be considered correct if put in the proper context, and with some additional information attached.

Having just completed my B.S. of Kinesiology at the University of Texas, I can share in your frustration that the large majority of professors lean towards endurance athletics and deal with weight training as an adjunct for your average person who simply wants to stay healthy.

In my sport nutrition class I took my senior year, we spent almost the entire time on carbohydrate absorption rates and which CHO’s were better for 5 hour events vs. 1 hour events. We also spent a tiny little bit of time on how certain fats can be used in place of super high carb content.

Bottom line is, don’t get too frustrated with what you’re hearing. Granted, a lot of the material presented to you is likely still based on very dated research.

But the reason the professors don’t spend much time on weight training as a means to get big is, there just isn’t as much research on the subject.

You’ve got countless studies on how to deplete your glycogen stores and then have your body supercompensate when you load right before an event, but there just isn’t the same amount of research on pure weight training (as a matter of fact, most of the research I’ve ever read on weight training used some form of isometric exercise as the strength test).

Professors can’t spend a lot of time lecturing on the diet or training portions of bodybuilding because, frankly, there is not as much official research to go on. Think about it: to improve your endurance abilities, you do some kind of endurance training, eat carbs, and do it again the next day.

Weight training in general is a much more complicated process, and it’s pretty widely accepted that guys in the gym are always a few years ahead of academia and the published research.

One last thing, I will be applying to Physical Therapy schools in the fall, and PT’s aren’t going to be worrying about the nutritional or hypertrophy aspects of your typical bodybuilder’s regimen.

Their job is to get people back to a level of functioning that they had prior to their injury. Don’t dread too much the class of the future Physical Therapists… That’s coming from one!

22

I say let them teach it as it is.

Then everyone who thinks for themselves and knows how to actually life/eat (COUGH T-Nation MEMBERS COUGH) will be able to make a killing in the nutrition and personal training fields.

Chins and straps? Or squats…and milk?

23

“Suffer through class and listen to profs tell you that gemellus superior, gemellus inferior, obturator internus, obturator externus, piriformis, and quadratus femoris are 6 medial rotators at the iliofemoral joint.”

Another reason cadaver dissection should be a staple for such programs. All is revealed in the lab.

Besides, every guy in college likes to crack open a cold one once and awhile.

24

[quote]utHAUS wrote:
dreads989 wrote:
I’m listening to the professor of my Exercise Physiology class give a lecture online, and I can’t take it anymore. I have to rant.

This class has officially caused me to dread the future Physical Therapists that will be running the country, especially considering that my university is supposed to have one of the best programs in the nation for it. Here are some of the GLORIOUS highlights of this class:

  1. As you try, you don’t improve recruitment, rate coding, or rate frequency of neuronal units. Only neuronal synchronization improves.

  2. A high carb diet is always the best. Period. Bar none. You won’t have energy on a high protein or high fat diet, and you WILL gain the weight back.

  3. Olympic weightlifters don’t perform eccentric exercises b/c they don’t want muscle hypertrophy.

  4. Bodybuilders look strong, but are weak.

  5. Powerlifters are soft/fat, but are strong.

  6. Lifting weights is not an adequate means of cardio

  7. Once you have been weightlifting for an extended period of time, you WILL reach your genetic potential, so progress should be extremely minimal, if any.

  8. Bench press is the single best indicator of upper body strength (I know, debatable, but still)

  9. When squatting, it’s all quads. NO posterior chain involved. At all.

  10. When looking at a male gymnast and a male olympic lifter, the lifter is fat, but the gymnast isn’t. Because olympic lifters don’t have that kind of physique.

  11. You cannot illicit hypertrophy with less then 80% of your 1RM if you are an “experienced” lifter.

  12. No diet will succeed without carbs. Your brain needs them, so cutting them out will be FATAL. (Apparently, ketones are out of the question).

  13. When I asked if 10x3 would illicit hypertrophy just like 3x10, I was told “no, it would not, as you have to train with a 3RM for that. Do you understand?”

I could go on and on. I attend this class with our G.A. Strength Coach (has CSCS, NSCA, B.A. in Biology, nationally ranked powerlifter deadlifting 666 at 181. Has to take this for his R.D. with Sports Nutrition emphasis) and he and I just die. Worst part is that EVERY OTHER student in my physical therapy class eats this up.

I explained two of the aforementioned errors with some of my friends in class, and they told me, “Well, she’s the teacher and you aren’t. I think she knows what she’s doing”.

I used to get ticked when people told me of Physical Therapists being wrong about a ton of things, but now I wonder…

Items number 3 through 6 can be considered correct if put in the proper context, and with some additional information attached.

Having just completed my B.S. of Kinesiology at the University of Texas, I can share in your frustration that the large majority of professors lean towards endurance athletics and deal with weight training as an adjunct for your average person who simply wants to stay healthy.

In my sport nutrition class I took my senior year, we spent almost the entire time on carbohydrate absorption rates and which CHO’s were better for 5 hour events vs. 1 hour events. We also spent a tiny little bit of time on how certain fats can be used in place of super high carb content.

Bottom line is, don’t get too frustrated with what you’re hearing. Granted, a lot of the material presented to you is likely still based on very dated research.

But the reason the professors don’t spend much time on weight training as a means to get big is, there just isn’t as much research on the subject.

You’ve got countless studies on how to deplete your glycogen stores and then have your body supercompensate when you load right before an event, but there just isn’t the same amount of research on pure weight training (as a matter of fact, most of the research I’ve ever read on weight training used some form of isometric exercise as the strength test).

Professors can’t spend a lot of time lecturing on the diet or training portions of bodybuilding because, frankly, there is not as much official research to go on. Think about it: to improve your endurance abilities, you do some kind of endurance training, eat carbs, and do it again the next day.

Weight training in general is a much more complicated process, and it’s pretty widely accepted that guys in the gym are always a few years ahead of academia and the published research.

One last thing, I will be applying to Physical Therapy schools in the fall, and PT’s aren’t going to be worrying about the nutritional or hypertrophy aspects of your typical bodybuilder’s regimen.

Their job is to get people back to a level of functioning that they had prior to their injury. Don’t dread too much the class of the future Physical Therapists… That’s coming from one![/quote]

I currently go to UT Austin and i’m going the same route as you, career-wise. Although I was hoping UT wouldn’t be as bad as the horror stories i’ve heard about most college kinesiology classes, at least I know what’s coming. Besides, it’s like some people said, Tell them what you want to hear until you get your license, then go your own way.

25

But… If only you and the strength coach really know what’s going on, and class after class are graduated with the same lemming-like beliefs, the overwhelming population suffers, no? On a much larger scale, is there any realistic way to reverse these trends, and help America claw its way out of the disease ridden basement it’s in now?

These things really frustrate me. There is a snowball effect as people become more and more ignorant to their health, and are influenced by mass-media, with their tabloid diets and fear of the concepts we embrace here. Things are only getting worse.

26

these teacher should have to be able to squat 1.5xbw before being allowed to teach a class

27

#1 is correct

28

[quote]belligerent wrote:
#1 is correct[/quote]

No it’s not.

Neuronal synchronization is OBSERVED as a RESULT OF improved recruitment, rate coding, or rate frequency of neuronal units.

29

I wish there was some kind of hotline you guys in these dilemas could use that would call on guys like Christian Thibs, Charles Poliquin, Dave Tate, Alywn Cosgrove and Dr. Berardi to come in and help you battle these old dogmas with you. Kind of like the Justice League LOL.

Then they could just annihilate all these professors with real knowledge and make all the students jaws drop when they reveal their achievements made physique wise, in the gym and knowledge they have gained.

Ahh but you can only dream…

30

[quote]schultzie wrote:
these teacher should have to be able to squat 1.5xbw before being allowed to teach a class[/quote]

I’m all for being able to practice what you preach (this could lead into the fat personal trainer rant), but that’s like saying Stephen Hawking should be able to jump on a trampoline before being able to be a physicyst…

31

[quote]utHAUS wrote:
schultzie wrote:
these teacher should have to be able to squat 1.5xbw before being allowed to teach a class

I’m all for being able to practice what you preach (this could lead into the fat personal trainer rant), but that’s like saying Stephen Hawking should be able to jump on a trampoline before being able to be a physicyst…[/quote]

Yeah.

Both the scholar and the practitioner have their places.

Tiger Woods has a coach for a reason, after all.

Also, the scholar/practitioner is a rare breed. Christian Thibaudeau epitomizes that sort of professional. Has done hands-on studies, clearly has performed his fair share of athletic feats, and he is a constant student.

I aspire to be just like that in whichever endeavor I choose as my career.

32

I think those classes are a joke if you only have 10-20% of the class room who see past the bullshit. It would be like torture to listen to that bs all day and then nod my head like a monkey agreeing to everything. Don’t know how you guys take it.

33

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
I think those classes are a joke if you only have 10-20% of the class room who see past the bullshit. It would be like torture to listen to that bs all day and then nod my head like a monkey agreeing to everything. Don’t know how you guys take it.[/quote]

I don’t know either.

I am probably going to take a second major to keep myself sane. Maybe microbiology or something with more intense hard sciences involved. Things that I can occupy my mind with.

34

At least at UF – it may be different elsewhere – one of the great things about the microbiology program is that there are tons of credits left over for electives.

I don’t recall exactly, but my program was probably only about 20 credits that were really microbiology specific, another 12 or so that were required chemistry that I would have done anyhow, and the other 30 or whatever, I could do whatever I pleased.

In contrast, at UF – again it may be different elsewhere – the exercise science program had almost no elective credits left. Nearly 60 credits were required College of Health and Human Performance stuff.

So if one wanted a second major, it meant having to go way above and beyond in total credits.

35

Nurses and doctors often get taught worse. I have had some big arguments with a friend of mine (a nurse) about protein supplementation - she’s one of the people who think that all protein supplements are worthless and that it will immediately go to fat because her profs told her that.

She kept telling me that when I see fat people in the gym it was because of excess protein supps. I tried to tell her that not everyone goes to the gym to get super skinny, but she would not listen.

But yeah, if you know what works and stick with it, you’ll end up being successful. Kind of annoying that you have to listen to the bullshit now though.

36

What you know best often comes long after graduation. Large failures in knowledge are often the result of a lack of dedication to staying current or to disregarding the basic proven tenents of your craft.

37

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
At least at UF – it may be different elsewhere – one of the great things about the microbiology program is that there are tons of credits left over for electives.

I don’t recall exactly, but my program was probably only about 20 credits that were really microbiology specific, another 12 or so that were required chemistry that I would have done anyhow, and the other 30 or whatever, I could do whatever I pleased.

In contrast, at UF – again it may be different elsewhere – the exercise science program had almost no elective credits left. Nearly 60 credits were required College of Health and Human Performance stuff.

So if one wanted a second major, it meant having to go way above and beyond in total credits. [/quote]

Thanks for that.

I’m not to sure what I should do here.

It seems that exercise science is very much based on cardiopulmonary rehabilitation and the like, whereas I am far more interested in the neural aspects of human motion and, specifically, central nervous system fatigue. I don’t know what major I should pursue to set myself up for that sort of study, but I do know that exercise science is at least moderately related.

If you have the time, are there any recommendations you could offer, given you are very much in-the-know?

38

Actually I am not at all much in the know with regard to the formal educational process in that field.

One option could be to pick another major that you like and is educational which like mine allows many elective credits, and then you can do whatever you want with those, including whatever exercise science programs are worthwhile.

It is also interesting and in many cases worthwhile to look at the graduate catalog as well, one in the upper division and particularly if a senior and having taken the fundamental courses in a given area. It is not unusual that there will be a good graduate course that can be open to you and the credits will, I would think, count towards your undergraduate degree (this was the case at UF anyway.)

The subjects you are interested are I think potentially graduate school areas of study.

It may well not be necessary to have an undergraduate degree in exercise science to be able to enroll, upon getting another bachelor’s degree, in a Master’s or PhD program, but rather just to have a reasonable foundation.

There is I expect money in bachelor’s degree recipients being knowledgeable and competent in cardiopulmonary rehabilitation, but maybe no money to be had for bachelor’s degree holders who don’t have in-demand skills such as that but rather had their educations focused on, for example, the subjects of your interest.

39

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually I am not at all much in the know with regard to the formal educational process in that field.

One option could be to pick another major that you like and is educational which like mine allows many elective credits, and then you can do whatever you want with those, including whatever exercise science programs are worthwhile.

It is also interesting and in many cases worthwhile to look at the graduate catalog as well, one in the upper division and particularly if a senior and having taken the fundamental courses in a given area. It is not unusual that there will be a good graduate course that can be open to you and the credits will, I would think, count towards your undergraduate degree (this was the case at UF anyway.)

The subjects you are interested are I think potentially graduate school areas of study.

It may well not be necessary to have an undergraduate degree in exercise science to be able to enroll, upon getting another bachelor’s degree, in a Master’s or PhD program, but rather just to have a reasonable foundation.

There is I expect money in bachelor’s degree recipients being knowledgeable and competent in cardiopulmonary rehabilitation, but maybe no money to be had for bachelor’s degree holders who don’t have in-demand skills such as that but rather had their educations focused on, for example, the subjects of your interest.
[/quote]

Ah, I see. Again, I appreciate the input.

Did you go to UF for your graduate/doctoral studies? I am interested in UF for their Physical Therapy department.

40

Yes, UF for upper division undergraduate and graduate.

I didn’t do anything within the physical therapy department though, so have no idea there, unfortunately.