T Nation

Exercise Order and Training Submaximal


#1

Hello,

Does it matter which order you do the assistance exercises in? F. E. Squat day

5pro squat
Fsl 5 x 5
Push assistance Incline Db bench
Pull assistance Dumbell rows
Single leg assistance. Lunges

Is it better to do all in this order or should I pair the Lunges with the main work, to prevent the legs from resting too long.

And 1 more question. Do you get stronger doing 5pro in the leaders without going for pr as in the anchors? Or are the leaders just meant for technique and bar speed?
I ask this because if I do f.e. Portals 5x531 program in 351 order. I will do 1 week mediocre, then a week lighter and 1 heavy week, without ever going for Pr on the 2 leader cycles.

I am used to set like every week new rep pr like on the 28 week Prog from beyond.

Greetings


#2

My head hurts…

Why are you complicating your life? Since when does assistance matter so much?

And, “Do you get stronger”? Really?


#3

I would superset the DB bench and DB rows with the Squats. I would not choose lunges as the assistance on squat day, but instead choose back raises, roll outs, or hanging leg raises. I would instead put lunges, if that’s an assistance you want to do, on a pressing day.


#4

I love the PR sets, and I am halfway through the 28 weeks from beyond.
tried the 5’s pro + 5x5 fsl this summer followed by anchor with pr sets… Well that didn’t suit me. My PR’s kind of felt off in a bad way.
So I follow you on that.
Assistance is as the Antiqe guy says well assistance. Don’t think to much about it.
You could do the assistance as a complex thing after the main work press - pull - lunge and du 3 - 5 rounds. If your legs are trashed after squat do core work instead. If your legs recover well by all means do the lunges.


#5

I got stronger in the squat just by doing 5s + FSL. It is not only sets/reps, but larger training picture with different phases.

And no, you don’t need PR sets to get stronger. The Portals 5x5/3/1 has pretty high intensity and moderate volume/frequency. The Jim personally writes it is ideal for strength. Remember that you’ll use PRs in anchor where you realize/peak up your strength.


#6

Hi Rattus I tend to agree with you, that you don’t need PR sets.
I did 5x5 progression at a time, but it kind of just stalled. But I did get stronger.
And Jims writing about 5’s pro as the only thing that works, (I know, that is NOT what he is saying, but he really likes them right now).
I just found that when doing 5’s for two leaders followed by deload and a cycle of anchor with pr’s, they just felt heavy and I was out of groove.
Have been doing PR’s since then. My bench and press is not going anywhere but squat and DL is sky rocketing.
When I’m done with this 28 weeks I will try leaders and anchors again :slight_smile:

EDIT: what I meant was we are not everybody the same, and some stuff works better for some than others, it’s trials, fails, succes and we all find what works for us.


#7

So you aren’t progressing on the pressing? I think for me pressing needs a lot more volume. BBS works well I guess. I made best progress on ultra high frequency training for the pressing. Less so for the deadlift. I added an extra day of pressing combined with back work to even it out. I know Jim mentionned somewhere not to do any extra lifting besides the 4 stated days. But my bench went from 90 kg to 150 kg est. 1rm in last year, which isn’t that bad I believe.

I just received the forever book as a Christmas gift. But I noticed wendler changed his assistance work differently as opposed to the beyond programs.

Now it’s everyday some kind of full body. And before it was like upper lower split style of training. Looking at the strength challenge for example. And also more focus on direct triceps and Biceps work. Why the change? Which works best for you guys when you want to do some kind of powerbuilding?

I currently have a bit trouble increasing my deadlift. Stuck at 170 kg for 2 reps for the last 3 weeks. While I thought deadlift should be the fastest improving lift for novice or early intermediate lifters. Don’t get it really. Gonna add deficits coming week.


#8

I hear you, and when I’m done 28 weeks, I’m going to see if I can fit something in my routine so I can press/Bench twice a week. (might even try something now, but don’t tell Jim)
Btw try backing up a bit on DL. I’m getting about 5-6 reps on the 5/3/1 week and it just works. But I’m only at 140 kg x 6, so a bit behind you. Might be you CNS that thinks you’re on the limit doing doubles.