T Nation

Excess Red Meat/Eggs & Health

Franklin TL, Kolasa KM, et al. Adherence to very-low-fat diet by a group of cardiac rehabilitation patients in the rural southeastern United States. Archives of Family Medicine 1995; 4:551-554 1995.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Changes in myocardial perfusion abnormalities by positron emission tomography after long-term, intense risk factor modification. JAMA 1995; 274(11): 894-901.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Improved stenosis geometry by quantitative coronary arteriography after vigorous risk factor modification. The American Journal of Cardiology 1992; 69(10): 845-853.

Ornish D. Serum lipids after a low-fat diet. JAMA 1998; 279(17): 1345-1346.

Ornish D. Avoiding revascularization with lifestyle changes: The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project. Am J Cardiol 1998; 82:72T-76T.

Ornish D, Brown SE, et al. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1990; 336: 129-33.

Ornish D, et. al. Intensive lifestyle changes for reversal of coronary heart disease. JAMA 1998; 280(23): 2001-2007.

These are a few studies either by Ornish or others supporting his claims.

It’s exam time for me so I can only spend so much time procrastinating with shit that half-interests me, there are plenty more studies which support the shit he practices, but i haven’t got time to sift through any more of them.

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
Franklin TL, Kolasa KM, et al. Adherence to very-low-fat diet by a group of cardiac rehabilitation patients in the rural southeastern United States. Archives of Family Medicine 1995; 4:551-554 1995.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Changes in myocardial perfusion abnormalities by positron emission tomography after long-term, intense risk factor modification. JAMA 1995; 274(11): 894-901.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Improved stenosis geometry by quantitative coronary arteriography after vigorous risk factor modification. The American Journal of Cardiology 1992; 69(10): 845-853.

Ornish D. Serum lipids after a low-fat diet. JAMA 1998; 279(17): 1345-1346.

Ornish D. Avoiding revascularization with lifestyle changes: The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project. Am J Cardiol 1998; 82:72T-76T.

Ornish D, Brown SE, et al. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1990; 336: 129-33.

Ornish D, et. al. Intensive lifestyle changes for reversal of coronary heart disease. JAMA 1998; 280(23): 2001-2007.

These are a few studies either by Ornish or others supporting his claims.

It’s exam time for me so I can only spend so much time procrastinating with shit that half-interests me, there are plenty more studies which support the shit he practices, but i haven’t got time to sift through any more of them.[/quote]

This Ornish guy sounds like a quack. Just what exactly are you supposed to fucking eat?

I’ll bet he has Zero muscle mass

I may be missing something here but every non-american (or even american?) publication talks about 2 grams per KILO, which is a huge difference.Then others,would further specify that to refer to one’s lean weight,which would further reduce the need. And reputable sources mention 1,6 grams for kilo as an acceptable lower limit.

[quote]Doug Adams wrote:

Um, then what exactly ARE we supposed to eat?[/quote]

poop?

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
Franklin TL, Kolasa KM, et al. Adherence to very-low-fat diet by a group of cardiac rehabilitation patients in the rural southeastern United States. Archives of Family Medicine 1995; 4:551-554 1995.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Changes in myocardial perfusion abnormalities by positron emission tomography after long-term, intense risk factor modification. JAMA 1995; 274(11): 894-901.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Improved stenosis geometry by quantitative coronary arteriography after vigorous risk factor modification. The American Journal of Cardiology 1992; 69(10): 845-853.

Ornish D. Serum lipids after a low-fat diet. JAMA 1998; 279(17): 1345-1346.

Ornish D. Avoiding revascularization with lifestyle changes: The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project. Am J Cardiol 1998; 82:72T-76T.

Ornish D, Brown SE, et al. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1990; 336: 129-33.

Ornish D, et. al. Intensive lifestyle changes for reversal of coronary heart disease. JAMA 1998; 280(23): 2001-2007.

These are a few studies either by Ornish or others supporting his claims.

It’s exam time for me so I can only spend so much time procrastinating with shit that half-interests me, there are plenty more studies which support the shit he practices, but i haven’t got time to sift through any more of them.[/quote]

The titles alone show that a lot of these studies were done using test subjects who were already experiencing heart problems, not healthy individuals. It’s like people throwing around the study using people with kidney disease as a case against eating more than the RDA of protein.

I wonder how many of these studies are funded by companies who only deal with products containing grains?

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
My point is, he wouldn’t endorse Ornish unless he was convinced by the evidence of the studies.

Thus the issue (in my mind) still stands; are we thickening our arteries just so we may move iron through horizontal and vertical planes of air? [/quote]

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-dean-ornish-hdl-aint-nothin-but-a-garbage-truck-rag/

Keep in mind that cholesterol and/or saturated fat has NEVER been PROVEN to have any negative effects on cardiac health.

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
Lets just say that you were told to eat 6 meals a day, all of which had to include at least 70 grams of protein per meal, in order to meet your requirement of 2g protein per lbs of body mass.

You were told that red meat high in omega 3 (so, game meat) was what you needed to have pretty much every meal. Fish and omega-3 eggs are also okay.

I’ve been doing it for a week and been getting calipered. I’ve shred fat, gained small amount of muscle, never feel hungry. Although, all the lecturers i’ve ever attended on diet a nutrition tell me this will bump up risks of CVD.

Anyone who has a sound knowledge in the field able to comment on the long term health impact this diet would entail?
Would appreciate it : )[/quote]

Go get your cholesterol checked, you’ll find it has improved if you are eating less carbohydrates.

[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Intermezzo wrote:
Franklin TL, Kolasa KM, et al. Adherence to very-low-fat diet by a group of cardiac rehabilitation patients in the rural southeastern United States. Archives of Family Medicine 1995; 4:551-554 1995.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Changes in myocardial perfusion abnormalities by positron emission tomography after long-term, intense risk factor modification. JAMA 1995; 274(11): 894-901.

Gould LK, Ornish D, et. al. Improved stenosis geometry by quantitative coronary arteriography after vigorous risk factor modification. The American Journal of Cardiology 1992; 69(10): 845-853.

Ornish D. Serum lipids after a low-fat diet. JAMA 1998; 279(17): 1345-1346.

Ornish D. Avoiding revascularization with lifestyle changes: The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project. Am J Cardiol 1998; 82:72T-76T.

Ornish D, Brown SE, et al. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1990; 336: 129-33.

Ornish D, et. al. Intensive lifestyle changes for reversal of coronary heart disease. JAMA 1998; 280(23): 2001-2007.

These are a few studies either by Ornish or others supporting his claims.

It’s exam time for me so I can only spend so much time procrastinating with shit that half-interests me, there are plenty more studies which support the shit he practices, but i haven’t got time to sift through any more of them.

The titles alone show that a lot of these studies were done using test subjects who were already experiencing heart problems, not healthy individuals. It’s like people throwing around the study using people with kidney disease as a case against eating more than the RDA of protein.

I wonder how many of these studies are funded by companies who only deal with products containing grains?[/quote]

There is not much money to be made on meat, and prpoduce. Those sections are usually very small in the grocery satore. Butyou have rows and rows and rows of grains, breads, flour, and sugar products.

[quote]entheogens wrote:
If you want to read a brilliant indictment of the Food Pyramid, the Cholesterol myth, etc, etc, read Gary Taubes, “Good Calories, Bad Calories”. He is a New York Times science writer who really digs deep into where the myths surrounding cholesterol come from.

You come to learn that the cholesterol theory of heart disease was the pet of one researcher who threw out most of the large scale studies on cholesterol that did not support his theory. The book isn’t a real easy read, but it is in-depth and you really get to see what a sham a lot of the “truths” of official medicine are.[/quote]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149

If the OP is too lazy to do some research on his own he can watch this video and get some of Gary Taubes’ work.