T Nation

Ex-Propecia User. Major Crash. Endo is Clueless, Help


Hyrdocortisone can’t be considered an option until you get AM cortisol resolved.


Ok Ill put pressure to get that tested

Could the low estrogen be causing alot of these symptons?

Ive just started metheotrexate for Psoriasis too which has knocked me for six


Are there less risky alternatives?

Do not risk a pregnancy with this stuff, or perhaps months afterwards.

It may interfere will E2 clearance in the liver and lead to higher E2 levels, but as your E2 was low, perhaps a concern for being on TRT.

I worry that this drug may be making some of your other issues worse.


Yeah for sure its making things worse - Im going to get off it, it caused minor scarring on my liver before when I used it

Unfortunately my Psoriasis is not great at the moment

But Im certain this is somehow related to Low T and Low E

Life has certainly got me on the ropes at the moment


Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions Ksman but

I played 5 a side football to help my mates on Monday, only in goal

Ever since my fatigue has gotten much worse and my glands in my neck have swollen right up and Im coughing up a green phloem?

Im thinking from a week in Vegas I maybe somehow caught Glandular Fever and I’m now suffering CFS?

Im seeing my endo tomorrow and gonna push him to put me on Androgel and see if that increase in test and estrogen helps my symptons


Sounds like a virus.
Flu? - sore muscles and joints?

Skip football.
Vitamin C and lots of water.


Thanks Ksman Ill let you know how it goes with my endo tomorrow


Hi Ksman

I have just had my appointment with Endo, he is a pakistani doctor and his grasp of english is not great so I am often met with short blunt answers to my questions. This is a private doctor through Nuffield Health, but from this experience I have certainly lost faith in the NHS

Appointment went as follows:

  • he wants to test for glandular fever following on from me bringing up my swollen glands and coughing up phlem
  • He refuses any claims when I said high fsh and low lh could be cancer
  • He will get my SHBG range for me this week
  • He refused to do cortisol am test saying that I have had the secretion test this tells him everything he needs to know
  • He is not interested in anything thyroid related as my results are all ok, so he wont do FT3/4
  • When I pointed out major clue we have here is very low estrogen he said yes but a lot of men want very low estrogen. But I said could this not be causing the symptoms I am experiencing and surely it would point to low free testosterone. He said possibly
  • He acknowledged shruken testes on examination

I am having all testosterone and estrogen levels checked next week and will be beginning Testogel for a 4 week trial period
I bought up do I need to take HCG with it, his adamant answer was no I dont need to take it with the testogel

KSman let me know your thoughts please sir



Hey Ksman

Did you get a chance to look at the feedback from my endo?

Also do you think there is any significance in my b12 result

VitaminB12 424 (180-2000ng/L)

I am unsure what the optimal number is but could this be adding to my fatigue?



I did see your report about the endo.
Endo’s are often a disappointment.

There are many things that can affect your energy levels and I tried to address these earlier.

B-12 comes with eating meat or taking vitamins. If you are not absorbing, that is a gut issue. Taking drugs to lower stomach acid can cause problems and we see loss of B-12 absorption in older folks. You can bypass absorption problems with sublingual B-12.

You need this form: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylcobalamin

Also take a high potency B complex multi-vit with trace elements also containing iodine+selenium


Hi KSman

So now my Endo has examined my testes he says they are shrunken so I am starting testogel 50mg a day tomorrow

As I have low estrogen and High Fsh / Low LH I strongly believe I have primary hypogonodasim

I also believe I have thyroid and adrenal issues but he is not willing to entertain that at all

Ill keep you in the loop on how this plays out



Update @KSman

Day 3 on 50mg Testogel

My fatigue and muscle weakness has improved 75%. I am up and about and ready for life and feel much more alive. Depression and anxiety improved 90%

My bowels seem to have somehow returned to normal, going everyday now as oppose to every 4 days previously

I still dont have morning wood, but my little fella certainly feels more alive. Could this take a while to return due to the lack of DHT/Test over a long period due to Propecia?

Let me know your thoughts


Day 6 on Testogel 50mg and I can feel the fatigue and muscle weakness creeping back in

Is this due to own natural testosterone level dropping because of the T from the gel?

Would this happen this early?


  • your testes willl remain so

T is T, does not matter where it came from.
Check E2 as that can reduce benefits.


Hi @KSman

I have been on testogel 10 days now

It has worked wonders for my fatigue, brain fog and muscle ache

It has improved libido but has not cured my ED, I still get weak erections that disappear when I stand up.

Something I have noticed is that I am waking in the morning with my heart jumping out of my chest! Is this my adrenals or a side effect of the testosterone

Please let me know your thoughts



10 days is not the time frame for changes in gene expression and brain pattern changes. Wait 6 weeks to see. There will be body adjustments as thing change.

Your transdermal T absorption is not known. Transdermal T has highest T–>E2 potential, injected the least.

Given the prior thyroid issues discussed earlier, your ability to absorb is in doubt.
You did not post oral body temps that you were determined to do a month ago.

Please note my references to E2 earlier.

You could do labs at 3-4 weeks to see what is happening. Minimum TT, FT, E2 and thyroids


Am 36.5
Mid afternoon 36.8
Night time 36.6

I think you missed them I posted them further up the comvo

Do you not think the testogel could of improved fatigue and muscle ache in 10 days?

It seems to have calmed my psoriasis and also stopped the blood sugar crashes I was having also


Temperatures are decent.

There can be early changes. But some changes are mediated by gene expression and tissue/brain changes. So there is more to come. There are some direct action effects that can be fast.


Thanks @KSman your advice has invaluable

Update 3 weeks on testogel:

  • Fatigue and muscle aches has improved 80%
  • ED no improvement - except erection and libido return with a hangover?
  • Psoriasis improved 70%
  • Morning fatigue and intolerance no improvement - adrenals or cfs possibly?

let me know your thoughts



Your TRT induced inprovements to fatigue, muscle aches/tone and skin are very interesting. There is more to come, 3 weeks is just the beginning for most guys.

30 days on iodine should have done whatever it will do.
How much iodine and how long? Selenium?

We never got AM cortisol because your doc is an idiot.
You: Doc my car will not start.
Doc: Battery is fine, because I can start your car with a jump start.