T Nation

Ex-Military Bloodwork Help!

I recently got some bloodwork done as a baseline and found out that I must have high estrogen/low test as the numbers didnt add up and I wish to reverse this. the numbers are as follows with my number first and the ranges in quotes next to them (any insight or comments would be appreciated):

LH: 7.8mIU/mL “1.7-8.6 mIU/mL”
ESTRADIOL: 38.4 pg/mL “7.6-42.6 mIU/mL”
Test Total: 336 “250-1100 ng/dL”
Free Test %: 2.37 “1.5-2.2 pg/mL”
Testos free: 79.6 “35-155 pg/mL”
Estrogen: <50 pg/ml

what do you guys make of it? I also have a slight case of gyno too… never done a cycle before so I am confused as to why my levels would be so low and my sex drive and function sucks as a 22 yr old…

I lift 5 days a week and eat as close to a 40/30/30 diet as I can, please help me with some insight if you have ran across numbers like these in a younger person.

Well I would look at other parameters such as thyroid and adrenals issues
Prolactin could also be causing the gyno
Your dr did the wrong estrodial test it needs to be the sensitive on not the roche. That is the same thing as the ultrasensitive by quest which is invalid and can be misleading results. Total estrogens is a test for women not males and any Dr that is running this test is a red flag to run as far and fast as you can. Look into the sticky that Ksman put up and it will help explain what tests to give.

you need
ft4
ft3
rt3
tsh 3 rd generation
cortisol am and free
vitamin d 25 oh- most floridians are low despite sunlight down there …I have seen this numberous of times even in people that have a nice tan as well.
estrodial sensitive not roche
VAP
ferritin
CBC
CMP

Looking how pale you are would indicate thyroid or adrenal issues and vitamin D.
GEting vitamin D levels up to upper 70 has kicked peoples testosterone levels up to normal…

Do we have an extreme diet here?

Picture says low E2, not high. Picture does not say gyno. FT and %FT does not say high E2.

LH looks good. But as LH is released in pulses, the lab may have caught a peak that is not representative. However, if that LH level really is representative, then that and the low TT might be indicating under performing testicles.

We see a lot of guys like this at your age, because they find there way here. These problems are likely rare.

Need some history of how and when did this start. Steroids, PH’s, hair loss drugs? Blows to the head? Reduction of peripheral vision, check both eyes.

Why were these tests done. Why did you go to the doc?

age
height
weight
waist
describe body and facial hair
did to grow fast or slow and steady as a teen
testes ache or hurt? ever?
mood
depression
libido
get cold easily? a change?
use iodized salt?
eat much sea food?
exposure to chemicals?

[quote]KSman wrote:
Do we have an extreme diet here?

Picture says low E2, not high. Picture does not say gyno. FT and %FT does not say high E2.

LH looks good. But as LH is released in pulses, the lab may have caught a peak that is not representative. However, if that LH level really is representative, then that and the low TT might be indicating under performing testicles.

We see a lot of guys like this at your age, because they find there way here. These problems are likely rare.

Need some history of how and when did this start. Steroids, PH’s, hair loss drugs? Blows to the head? Reduction of peripheral vision, check both eyes.

Why were these tests done. Why did you go to the doc?

age
height
weight
waist
describe body and facial hair
did to grow fast or slow and steady as a teen
testes ache or hurt? ever?
mood
depression
libido
get cold easily? a change?
use iodized salt?
eat much sea food?
exposure to chemicals?[/quote]

I was using a military doctor since that was all I was allowed at the time unfortunately :frowning: tricare and socialized medicine is for the birds! I will be out in a month so I will see about getting some health insurance and seeing a reputable doctor then. Any suggestions on insurance?

The reason I got the tests run was because i went to him about my puffy nipples and i had a noticable hard mass under both of them if you pinch them you can feel it and it gets sensitive sometimes. I didnt know much about gyno until I started reading about it on this board.

As far as AAS’s go and any of that other stuff, I have taken 2 cans of animal stak about 6-8 months back and I used to take ZMA every night before bed for about a year or so. I have since stopped taking these since I thought they might be hurting me. Although I would like to start my first cycle in Sept, I want to get to the bottom of this as I dont want to hurt myself or wind up on trt if i dont need it.

age: 21 about to be 22 in Aug
height: 6’2"
weight: ~205
waist: 33"
describe body and facial hair: very hard gainer, ectomorph, was tall and slender until i joined the military, i was 150 before i started lifting in 2006 so ~60lbs has been gained in 4 yrs
did to grow fast or slow and steady as a teen: as a teen I grew tall wise extremely fast, I was always one of the tallest kids but i was as skinny as a rail, never had any muscle mass
testes ache or hurt? ever?: Maybe once or twice, but nothing ever frequent or has happened within recent memory
mood: frustrated with the lack of sex drive and how hard it is to gain mass
depression: maybe if i cant get this straightened out (lol)
libido: was alright but has slowly dwindled off and is non exsistant now.
get cold easily? a change?: i never really get sick but when i do i come down hard for a good 3-4 days, last time I was sick was last fall
use iodized salt? on foods? yes I never really watch my salt to be honest
eat much sea food? to be honest not really, just some here and there, mostly chicken breasts, lean hambergur, and lean steaks. I will eat mostly rice, bagels and assorted fruits also. milk is always had at every meal.
exposure to chemicals: likely since I work with nukes and we have all kinds of chemicals that we use such as air craft grease to different cleaning agents, not to mention the shop i work in is dirty as hell and i work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week (or have been the past few months)

[quote]tampamuscle wrote:
eat much sea food? to be honest not really, just some here and there, mostly chicken breasts, lean hambergur, and lean steaks. I will eat mostly rice, bagels and assorted fruits also. milk is always had at every meal.[/quote]

I’m sure this info about milk will interest HAN

I highly doubt working around nuclear weapons allows for sufficient exposure to worry about. Do you wear a TLD?

The issue is getting enough iodine, not taking too much salt. Sea food is another source of iodine. Your body need iodine to make thyroid hormones.

The question was about your feeling cold, not getting a cold :wink: Low thyroid hormones can make you feel cold. easily.

Some drugs, Rx and OTC [over the counter] and chemical can create loads on the liver which reduces the capacity to clear estrogens from your body, estrogens then increase, which reduce T levels then oppose what T is left.

The odd thing that remains is that your LH is saying that your HPTA is not broken. I think that one needs to consider the health of the testicles. They can be evaluated with an hCG challenge and the HPTA overall can be challenged with clomid or nolvadex. But that does not really get to the root cause, only the category.

Insurance: Will you be self employed or ?

Describe body and facial hair — I need a hairy answer.

Some guys your age get hormone problems spontaneously, some from hair loss drugs, some from deca or pro-hormones/garbage.

Sorry, no clarity yet.

UPDATE

Just got my second labs in…a little better but still nowhere near what I think they should be. These were done after fasting for 12 hours.

TSH SENSITIVE: 1.90 “.34-4.82” mIU/ML
Glucose: 94 “74-106” MG/DL
Test Total: 482 “250-1100” ng/dL
Free Test %: 2.40 “1.5-2.2”
Testro Free: 115.5 “35-155.0” pg/mL

As you can see these are really no better than the last tests except for a minor increase in total and free % since these were done right after I woke up from a 8 hour sleep I doubt thier validity since I am still feeling down and out.

Any suggestions?

I will answer your questions KSman when I hop back on in a hour, I have to take care of some paperwork first

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I highly doubt working around nuclear weapons allows for sufficient exposure to worry about. Do you wear a TLD?
[/quote]
no, unfortunately there are “funding” issues haha

[quote]KSman wrote:
The issue is getting enough iodine, not taking too much salt. Sea food is another source of iodine. Your body need iodine to make thyroid hormones.

The question was about your feeling cold, not getting a cold :wink: Low thyroid hormones can make you feel cold. easily.

Some drugs, Rx and OTC [over the counter] and chemical can create loads on the liver which reduces the capacity to clear estrogens from your body, estrogens then increase, which reduce T levels then oppose what T is left.

The odd thing that remains is that your LH is saying that your HPTA is not broken. I think that one needs to consider the health of the testicles. They can be evaluated with an hCG challenge and the HPTA overall can be challenged with clomid or nolvadex. But that does not really get to the root cause, only the category.

Insurance: Will you be self employed or ?

Describe body and facial hair — I need a hairy answer.

Some guys your age get hormone problems spontaneously, some from hair loss drugs, some from deca or pro-hormones/garbage.

Sorry, no clarity yet.[/quote]

I eat the occasional salmon fillet just to throw in a variety of meat and usually eat a serving of tuna if not everyday every other day

as far as being cold I am usually a hot natured person and it takes alot to get me cold

as far as an "hCG or Clomid/nolva challenge are you suggesting I run a course of either/or to see if my sypmtoms improve or if my baseline numbers improve? please explain this, becasue I was thinking of doing the same thing since the logic is PCT will restore your natural function, why not give that a try…

Insurance: I will be a full time student starting in march but I will also have a full time job and VA benifits for school coming in so I will have some cash on hand.

As far as my body hair, I tend to only have darker hair on my face and around my nipples, my chest hair is non existant, and have a patch of darker hair starting on my lower stomach. all hair on my extremities are blonde and very light. so no real body hair unless you count what i told you. please let me know if there is anything else I can provide you. Thanks again!

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]tampamuscle wrote:
eat much sea food? to be honest not really, just some here and there, mostly chicken breasts, lean hambergur, and lean steaks. I will eat mostly rice, bagels and assorted fruits also. milk is always had at every meal.[/quote]

I’m sure this info about milk will interest HAN

I highly doubt working around nuclear weapons allows for sufficient exposure to worry about. Do you wear a TLD?
[/quote]

You are one toxic indiviudal and milk at every sitting…
I just had a guy low e2 and drank milk 2 gallons of milk a week for several months. His total T was below reference range and so was vitamin D . After 8 weeks on DIM and increasin veggies, and cutting out milk completely with ample amount of vitamin D no other variables changed his e2 dropped from out of range back into range then testosteorne shot up over 400 points to mid 600’s.

First time in a long time he was getting notctural and morning erections, depression alleviated, sex drive was back he was losing weight as well. So as you can see you are just over polluting you self with toxins from both previous exposures and also current ones from the milk.

I pull all people off dairy pretty much or cut it down to one serving a day because so many people are allergic to the casein in milk that can cause excessive stress to adrenals. I can not tell you how many people had hidden food allergies, and celiac that when undiscovered for years or decades.

Once identified remove skin cleaned up, digestion improved and age dependent hormones went back to normonal resulting in no TRT. That is why Dr need to look closer into things because alot of younger guys are being condemn for no reason when it is just a symptom of the cause.

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]tampamuscle wrote:
eat much sea food? to be honest not really, just some here and there, mostly chicken breasts, lean hambergur, and lean steaks. I will eat mostly rice, bagels and assorted fruits also. milk is always had at every meal.[/quote]

I’m sure this info about milk will interest HAN

I highly doubt working around nuclear weapons allows for sufficient exposure to worry about. Do you wear a TLD?
[/quote]

You are one toxic indiviudal and milk at every sitting…
I just had a guy low e2 and drank milk 2 gallons of milk a week for several months. His total T was below reference range and so was vitamin D . After 8 weeks on DIM and increasin veggies, and cutting out milk completely with ample amount of vitamin D no other variables changed his e2 dropped from out of range back into range then testosteorne shot up over 400 points to mid 600’s. First time in a long time he was getting notctural and morning erections, depression alleviated, sex drive was back he was losing weight as well. So as you can see you are just over polluting you self with toxins from both previous exposures and also current ones from the milk. I pull all people off dairy pretty much or cut it down to one serving a day because so many people are allergic to the casein in milk that can cause excessive stress to adrenals. I can not tell you how many people had hidden food allergies, and celiac that when undiscovered for years or decades. Once identified remove skin cleaned up, digestion improved and age dependent hormones went back to normonal resulting in no TRT. That is why Dr need to look closer into things because alot of younger guys are being condemn for no reason when it is just a symptom of the cause.[/quote]

hmmmmmmmm this is very interesting!! My mother had suggested that I cut out my milk intake and replace it with more seafood as well and the time between the two tests I, which was a little over a week, seemed to have gained some points but i didnt know where it could have come from. You identifiying dairy as aq potiential source of reduced T/elevated E seems to almost make since and makes me question what is in milk that is so bad and why if I have had a food allergy why didnt it affect anything other than my hormone levels? great advice though!

Ill be out f the military in one month so a better, balanced diet will be much easier to obtain, along with a regular sleep schedule and not to mention getting away from this hazardous enviroment! however if casien or milk is the route cause, what about protien supplements such as whey (dirved from milk) and even casien shakes???

I will have 2 months between when I start school again and when I will have an all-you-can-eat meal plan so I will try to tweek my diet and see if it doesnt get better on its own…very interesting concept!

About five years ago, I read an article about how harmful milk can be so I swtiched to Soy Milk. Eliminating milk by itself did not solved my problems, but I could definitely tell a difference when I am traveling and have regular milk with cereal for a couple of days. It throws my whole system off.

(non-organic milk is even worse with all of the antibiotics, growth hormone, etc. pumped into normal cows).

[quote]PureChance wrote:
About five years ago, I read an article about how harmful milk can be so I swtiched to Soy Milk. Eliminating milk by itself did not solved my problems, but I could definitely tell a difference when I am traveling and have regular milk with cereal for a couple of days. It throws my whole system off.

(non-organic milk is even worse with all of the antibiotics, growth hormone, etc. pumped into normal cows). [/quote]

I have seen claims that soy leads to supression of male hormones, so I would be careful with that. Chris Shugart over on the Velocity Life section is currently touting Almond Milk as his new go-to whenever he feels the need for milk. Apparently its delicious. I haven’t had a chance to try it yet though.

Yeah, I have heard that to.

Half of the articles I read say that Soy is the best thing ever with a near limitless benefits including that Soy is a pseudo-estrogen that blocks real estrogen from having as much of an impact on males; the other half of the articles say that Soy can mess you up severely - but from what I can tell, the negative articles all seem to focus on unique cases which I attribute to gene/dna mutations (as in, yes there is going to be a segment of the population that have negative hormonal reactions to Soy products, but most people do not).

I have started and stopped soy a couple of times with no noticeable effect except for when I switch back to regular non-organic milk (which messes me up as I said earlier).

yeah it was great value milk from walmart so I guess i will stay away from milk for awhile and see how that goes. do you think running a month or two of an AI or hCG would help bring it back to normal levels faster??

What are your views on protien shakes, good or bad??

AI you are just asking for trouble and once the source has been removed your body will rebalance on its own.
Again you need more indept blood testing to confrim thyroid and vitamin D levels as well. These are probably your 2 biggest players that will affect hormones and how the body will respond to them. Do not self adminster anything because you are only going to make matters worse in the end making it more challanging for a good dr to even help you. I spend more time rebalancing people out from imbalances that they created them self by trying to self medicate or using specific over the counter stuff adding more insult.

Are you routinely applying sun screens or insect repellents to your skin?
Exposure to cleaners, solvents, fuels, paint fumes could be a factor.
Exposure to heavy metals or dust from sanding or chipping paint?
Wearing and protective clothing with fire retardants?

You really need to test serum E2 to resolve the problem of low %BF+gyno.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Are you routinely applying sun screens or insect repellents to your skin?
Exposure to cleaners, solvents, fuels, paint fumes could be a factor.
Exposure to heavy metals or dust from sanding or chipping paint?
Wearing and protective clothing with fire retardants?

You really need to test serum E2 to resolve the problem of low %BF+gyno.
[/quote]

  1. I never really use sunscreen, and since you brought that up im guessing that could bring estrogen levels up so I will stay away

2)yes I am exposed to every one of those, some more than others like cleaners and aircraft grease and fuels.

3)Sanding and spray painting metal and old wood are also some of the things we do in shop. thankfully I will be out of the military by next tuesday so my duties as far as that will be done this week.

4)Our uniforms have fire protection chemicals and also chemicals to reduce the Infared spectrum for nightvision use so im guess those are helping as well…

I will go back once im out next month and ask for a more indepth look at my e2 and testosterone levels as suggested in previous posts. the military has said it wont give me anymore tests since im “normal” and that Im “forbidden” to go to a non-military doctor until I am released. sounds like total BS to me…

Also I have cut out dairy for just about 1 1/2 - 2 weeks and I almost feel as if things are starting to get a tad better. I also stopped taking caffiene pre-workout since I thought it could also be addrenal fatigue. I will keep you posted…

Once again thanks for your info and time it took to write me back on this matter, cheers!