T Nation

Evolving with TRT, Evaluating Adjustments to Endocrine System; Estradiol, HCG, Supplements?


Hey KSman, i switched to .25mL E3.5D of T, that is much better. The .5mL E7D would leave me with ~1.75 days of low energy, brain fog days, old man feeling. The flatter supply curve works for me, thanks. I also switched to 29g needles and do SQ. I use a space heater and/or a little hot water to heat the oil up a just a touch. Goes in the syringe better and also injects easier…win, win.

HCG…i asked one my Dr.'s, they said it was hard to get an Rx, but said it would be >$720 per month and wouldn’t be covered by insurance…Seems high.

The reason i’m pushing harder (no pun) on my Dr. is that i’ve had some contraction of my junk bag up North, it’s in southern Alberta right now…so to speak. So, where do people get the HCG…I know i need some tests, but do i need the tests first or can i get some of that and then start the tests. I’m meeting my main Dr. in a couple weeks, so i’ll ask him about the triad which is recommended.

Thanks KSman, systemlord


Hey KSman, systemslord, 50mg of T E3.5D, and that’s it. The T wasn’t processed by the lab, some foul up, but will be tested later this month…i assume the different testing times won’t matter too much. I will sync that blood sample mid-way, like I did the first blood sample for these tests. Any thoughts on the E2? or HCG? thanks.



Weeks ago I notice my erections were struggling to fill me up, confirmed E2 was 46 pg/mL. The best way to deal with the E2 without an AI is lower the dosage (-10mg). HCG price is insane, highway robbery.


I was reviewing my case, editing it. I noticed KSman’s comments on “22 gauge needles are insane.” Now that i’ve been using 29g, that statement rings most true. SC and 29g are the way to go…the 22g IM shots damaged my muscles…I think. Hurt badly for a couple days two separate times. …M


Don’t feel bad, I started out using 18 gauge harpoons.


18g, OMG. I wear glasses and when i see the 22g, and the little elliptical blade at the end, makes me queasy. 18g…that’s a lot of knife tip on a needle. Of course, now i ask the nurses about what gauge they’re using to give me an injection, take my blood, etc. No doubt they prefer to be left alone on that…oops.


Iodine: I do take an Iodine multi vitamin that has selenium in it. I augment this with Lugol’s Iodine solution in water (drinking) and also use Lugol’s topically a few times a week. Further, i’ve swtiched to Iodized salt and a couple times a week i may eat some roasted seaweed snacks.
I have found that an overall increase in Iodine has probably raised my body temperature up about .5 degree (tonight it was 97.7, used to be between 96.2 and 97.2 during some random samples). That seaweed tastes good.


holycow, 18 g. i look at the 22g w/ my reading glasses and it looks way big…18g…dang


Update: Lost 12 pounds,. Still fat, but shirts and pants are noticeably looser. Feeling more energy, my GP seemed to like it (he might be changing his mind) and he’s ordering my some T tests w/ my upcoming annual. I feel much better, but i pushed it playing sports and tore a stomach muscle…it was kinda good news, cuz i thought it was a hernia originally. Apparently, torn stomach muscles can cause bruising and lumps of coagulated blood, where as hernias apparently do not…just glad i don’t need surgery.


Well, was off this page for a while,…just busy. So, in about 9 months, i’m down about 27 pounds., more energy, stronger, i think even breathing is a little better. Very happy.

Thanks KSMan and Systemlord for advice, big props.

If anything, i’ve probably missed a couple injections, so i’m probably lower than i should be…but nonetheless, feel better. More flexibility. Also, was doing the iodine thing for a while, still do, but need to load up on sources (seaweed and lugols iodide)…

Not be gross, but my stomach fat is looser, and i can feel my muscles beneath the abdominal fat…before it was hard, very firm and un-elastic, i can’t help but think that some of the organ fat has been used up ( i hope).

No metrics other than the qualitative feeling good, stronger, more active and such. Doing many reps of light weights (10, 15 and 25 pound) barbels / medicine balls mostly. Concerned about about testicles and that i should use some estrogen blockers. Need to read the stickies on those again.

Feel like it’s changed my life for the better, though i have much more progress to go.


i realize that i also forgot to mention that my Magnesium levels were low, which surprised me because i heat a lot of green vegetables such as broccoli and kale and etc. But, i take a respiratory medicine, which apparently eats up magnesium. so, turns out there is a good chance if you’re asthmatic and use typical medicines, a magnesium supplement is not a bad idea. Of course, i did not find this out through my MD for asthma. Found it out through a semi-TRT doc who does sports medicine.


There are some guys that become magnesium deficient sometime after starting TRT, even pregnenolone deficient after many years. TRT is like stepping on the gas, if magnesium was somewhat low before you started TRT it will only be a matter of time.

So it’s not necessarily diet.


Yeah, i have to have magnesium… I was out of town recently and forgot to take my supplements…had horrendous cramps…inner quad stuff, in the middle of the night…i also take a powdered vitamin to alleviate cramps. I think salt may hellp too, when i got home i put a bunch of salt on something i ate ( which is rare)…i taste terrific and i felt tremendous that day. My own speculation maybe , but i think that helped.


Beware serum magnesium could be normal while RBC magnesium could be depleted, so run a magnesium RBC test to see what concentration is in your cells after you start supplementing.


So, i’m about 10 months into into TRT…i’m consistent, but occasionally i’ll only use 50 to 60 % of my weekly T, if i miss a day EOD, i try to give a little over 1/2 a dose on the next one… Not ideal, but life is not always perfect.

I have more energy, and am hitting vitamins hard as well as upping (not always, but 20% of the time) the amount of iodide ingestion (Lugols/Seaweed)…eating fewer carbs, but i will become weak minded at eat some sweets now and again. However, my net progress is good.

Excercise: Mainly fast walking and light weights, stretching, golf and calisthenics.

Resutls: Weight is down 28 pounds, Sugar levels have dropped form 108 to 81…very content with that).

New Goals: More weights, rowing, more walking, some cycling this year.

Need to get TRT tested.

I don’t take anything for increased estrogen, but trying to figure that one out. Maybe just a little estradiol could help…don’t know what do get tested. Need to re-read the posts on that which KSman has put up.

Pressing forward, Magellan

thanks for the education and encouragement brothers.


Addendum: When young, I played contact sports and, actually was concussed many times. In fact, cleanly knocked out 7 times. As well, i received a few groin shots, one of which was horrible. I didn’t go to the MD for it, but It was a really bad injury.

As well, I matured physically than most, was a bit of a man-child at 12 years old, did a lot of physical labor, etc.

Was exposed to lot of toxic jet fuel, crude oil, industrial herbicides as a young man. By exposed, I mean physical contact with chemicals with little to no protective equipment/safety clothing. Later on i was found to have extremely low sperm counts, extremely low. I put this on for KSman’s scientific request for full disclosure of conditional attributes.