T Nation

Ever Hear of This Terminology?

I was doing some wikipedia reading on different steroid profiles.

at the bottom of each steroid profile, you can see whether the steroid is carbon 19 present (test, win, var, etc…) or carbon 19 absent (deca, tren)

they actually use the terms as an androstan derivative for carbon 19 present and estren derivative for carbon 19 absent.

kind of bizarre that estren is used to describe carbon 19 absent steroids.

i’m just thinking out loud.

any thoughts?

What exactly is your question?

The page is talking about the basis of the drugs - whether they are androgen (Androstan) based or estrogen (Estren) based basically. The reason the words Androstan or Estren are used is simply because they are the terms for the whole of the male or female sex hormone groups. (Androsten - Testosterone and all derivatives, and Estren - Estrogen, Progesterone etc etc…)

The estrogen based ones we use most commonly are Nandrolone and Trenbolone as they are Progestins, and in the Estren based group.

Obviously all the DHT based steroids are androgen based steroids.
Test etc is an androgen based steroid.

All sex hormones are related. Have a look at the following link and it should make a little more sense in your mind - as a visual aid.

http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00150.gif

It was my home page for many months as i find all this very interesting.

The reason that males dont find tren/deca and other progestins and estrogen based steroids (IIRC ‘The Clear’ or THG is Tetrahydragesterone(sp) or something - making it an obvious estrogen based steroid)
such a problem with recovery, libido etc. is because of the closeness to the feminine based Estrogens, etc.

The androgen based steroids that aromatise are converted to estrogen via that enzyme, which removes the carbon 19 atom - the DHT based AAS are not aromatizable - if you look at the following link it simplifies it a lot so you can see there is no way for the aromatise enzyme to bind to DHT based drugs as it has been ‘reduced’ to a basic androgen by the 5alpha reductase enzyme.

Hope this helps.
It is complicated and i am far from fully understanding the full relationship of the sex hormones in men, but it is a subject i enjoy and one that will help the understanding of the effects of AAS in men massively.

Brook

[quote] Brook wrote:
What exactly is your question?

The page is talking about the basis of the drugs - whether they are androgen (Androstan) based or estrogen (Estren) based basically. The reason the words Androstan or Estren are used is simply because they are the terms for the whole of the male or female sex hormone groups. (Androsten - Testosterone and all derivatives, and Estren - Estrogen, Progesterone etc etc…)

The estrogen based ones we use most commonly are Nandrolone and Trenbolone as they are Progestins, and in the Estren based group.

Obviously all the DHT based steroids are androgen based steroids.
Test etc is an androgen based steroid.

All sex hormones are related. Have a look at the following link and it should make a little more sense in your mind - as a visual aid.

http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00150.gif

It was my home page for many months as i find all this very interesting.

The reason that males dont find tren/deca and other progestins and estrogen based steroids (IIRC ‘The Clear’ or THG is Tetrahydragesterone(sp) or something - making it an obvious estrogen based steroid)
such a problem with recovery, libido etc. is because of the closeness to the feminine based Estrogens, etc.

The androgen based steroids that aromatise are converted to estrogen via that enzyme, which removes the carbon 19 atom - the DHT based AAS are not aromatizable - if you look at the following link it simplifies it a lot so you can see there is no way for the aromatise enzyme to bind to DHT based drugs as it has been ‘reduced’ to a basic androgen by the 5alpha reductase enzyme.

Hope this helps.
It is complicated and i am far from fully understanding the full relationship of the sex hormones in men, but it is a subject i enjoy and one that will help the understanding of the effects of AAS in men massively.

Brook[/quote]

thanks Brook. Very helpful.

I didn’t know that recovery was easier with compounds like tren and deca.

Going back to that first link. I’m assuming Tren and Deca would be found more towards the bottom of the hormones?

Sorry i worded that wrong - this is what i meant:

“…The reason that males find tren/deca and other progestins and estrogen based steroids such a problem with recovery, libido etc. is because of the closeness to the feminine based Estrogens, etc…”

AD: This is because it throws other hormones out of whack - rather than a non-aromatising AAS or test/androgen based drug which will increase androgenic hormones.

:wink: