T Nation

Evasive Skills

Let’s talk evasive skills, that shit that not only looks cool, but stops fists (or elbows, legs etc) from putting your ass on the floor.

Whether it’s slipping, weaving, ducking, leaning or just plain silly shit to get out of the way of a hurtin bomb(s). What’s the best type of training, how good is your evasive skills, fighters with the best evasive skills, etc etc whatever.

rope attached to a tennis ball hanging from the ceiling or an experienced fighter throwing at you all day.

/thread

for cereal though, the tennis ball thing really improved my bobs. Slip lines are awesome and some good old footwork drills.

My evasive skills are ok. My nose has never been broken, but my chin has been tested.

Best evasive fighters…A.Silva, and the King of all Combat sports Muhammed Ali. Refer to avi.

Good topic!

First of all, its highly dependable on the situation or sport we’re talking about.
Of course, we can also try to look for similarities among these.

As a starting point, I believe the whole thing is a lot more difficult if your offense is flawed. In so far that:

1-your opponent has no respect
2-you lack the ability to unleash on the opponent at any moment, or make at least some advantage out of the evasive maneuver
3-your situation improves only for the moment, and/or gets worse overall

Under these conditions, you need to work on your offensive skillsets more then on your defensive ones.

regarding 1: this seems pretty clear. In a sport situation, this is often circumvented through starting easy and gradually upping the intensity of the sparring session. It’s also mostly a non issue with partners you know.
But train with new hotshots or in a new club full of assholes or fight with drunks and you’ll find some maneuvers will give you 0 points as nobody is judging you. The other may even get bolder, which is -in most cases- not good.
2:You need to understand how to turn the table, how to interrupt the opponent’s offense. Since this is easier said then done, at least analyze if you regularly move away from a situation you should be able to control differently, more effectively and if you just try to break away the “easy way”. If the opponent pressures you, is your evasion still effective? And it shouldn’t be flashy for it’s own sake (nobrainer).
3:If your moves are good but you still end up on your ass, perhaps you lack toughness? Is your maneuver entirely too defensive? Perhaps your moves are too elaborate?
An agressive opponent sometimes cannot be simply dodged, sometimes it is smarter to wear him out a little and to gradually seize the initiative.

Apart from specific drills, probably the best exercising is to fight with smaller (reach and weight), more unexpirienced guys. Don’t unleash here, control them with little offensive work and use clean evasive maneuvers applicable to your (standup) game.
There’s a good chance that you will find the clean “technicians” to be easier to control defensively.

edited for clarity

i agree with the slip bag/tennis ball…plus, it’s cheap and easy enough to drill on your own.

i think some evasion techniques work better for some sports than others (i.e. leaning back works for boxing, but not MMA, where you can get taken down)…

i tend to “absorb” a lot of shots on my forearms/elbows…but i’m not very quick, so i want to maintain a certain closeness so i can tie up again. if i was faster, i would allow myself to move back and forth a lot more…

i think using ladder footwork drills helps a lot, as far as move just out of range, and then back in…

the golden mayweather boy has divine evasive skills; still most of his shit (shoulder rolls, slip etc) is unusable for the unwashed fighting masses and in most situations.

Maeda in K1 or Machida; similar styles

Prince Naseem Hamed

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
the golden mayweather boy has divine evasive skills; still most of his shit (shoulder rolls, slip etc) is unusable for the unwashed fighting masses and in most situations.

Maeda in K1 or Machida; similar styles

Prince Naseem Hamed

[/quote]

Took everything I had not to mention Hamed. I dont like the guy but his evasiveness is stellar. You gotta have respect for his riddum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUFYtXNN0A&feature=related

The best training method for developing your defensive skills is to use sparring correctly. Many people think of sparring as a competition, it’s not. Sparring is simply a means of practicing against an opponent. Go rounds without even throwing punches and work on your footwork, slipping, and parrying. My favorite means of evasion are the ones I’ve listed[footwork, slipping, and parrying]. They’re the fundamentals of defensive boxing and can take you far if you choose to implement them.

When you can’t spar there are also some items/drills to do:

-Slip bag. It’s already been mentioned, but it’s truly one of the best ways to work on slipping punches[hence the name]. You can make them out of nearly anything or buy one relatively cheap. A really easy way of making one is to fill a sock with sand, tie it up with a string, and then hang it from something.

-Have a friend throw punches at you and work on parrying them. Once you’re accustom to parrying shots begin to use footwork with it and you can work on two things in one drill.

Beyond that it’s just a matter of practice and persistence.

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
The best training method for developing your defensive skills is to use sparring correctly. Many people think of sparring as a competition, it’s not. Sparring is simply a means of practicing against an opponent. Go rounds without even throwing punches and work on your footwork, slipping, and parrying. My favorite means of evasion are the ones I’ve listed[footwork, slipping, and parrying]. They’re the fundamentals of defensive boxing and can take you far if you choose to implement them.

When you can’t spar there are also some items/drills to do:

-Slip bag. It’s already been mentioned, but it’s truly one of the best ways to work on slipping punches[hence the name]. You can make them out of nearly anything or buy one relatively cheap. A really easy way of making one is to fill a sock with sand, tie it up with a string, and then hang it from something.

-Have a friend throw punches at you and work on parrying them. Once you’re accustom to parrying shots begin to use footwork with it and you can work on two things in one drill.

Beyond that it’s just a matter of practice and persistence.

[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it better.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
the golden mayweather boy has divine evasive skills; still most of his shit (shoulder rolls, slip etc) is unusable for the unwashed fighting masses and in most situations.
[/quote]

…or just about anyone else. You’ve gotta remember that guys like Mayweather, Jones Jr. (in his prime), Haseem, etc… have phenomenal reaction time and natural quickness. They can make things work that someone without those natural gifts are never going to be able to make work, no matter how hard they train.

That doesn’t mean that things like shoulder rolls and slips can’t be used effectively by others, just that they aren’t likely going to be able to make people whiff on their punches like those guys.

As for developing them, gotta agree that a partner is best possible tool for developing them. Just have them throw punches at you and you work on dodging them. Start off slower with fewer lines of attack (like just have them throw straight punches to your head), then as you gain skill and confidence, gradually add in more lines of attack and increase speed.

There is an awesome video of Rocky Marciano defense techniques in answer to all the people who thought as him as only a offensive slugger.

while it’s certainly not an ‘end all’ approach, i think KFM has some interesting concepts that could definatly compliment stand up styles

@ 3:47 iz kewl

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
while it’s certainly not an ‘end all’ approach, i think KFM has some interesting concepts that could definatly compliment stand up styles

@ 3:47 iz kewl[/quote]

Interesting, looks like a less sophisticated version of Richard Ryan’s “Shield” defense system.

Wow, it’s actually really cool, i was even thinking: oh god, here comes another mcdojo training system.

wtf.

no faith, assholes

while i have your attention, some of the concepts of KFM are being brought to ground fighting as well.

once again, not something i’d reccomend as the ‘go to’, but certianly something that could be a valuable addition

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
wtf.

no faith, assholes

while i have your attention, some of the concepts of KFM are being brought to ground fighting as well.

once again, not something i’d reccomend as the ‘go to’, but certianly something that could be a valuable addition

Good stuff to add to the tool bag, thx for sharing this.

Where do you find this kind of stuff? it’s really interesting.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
while it’s certainly not an ‘end all’ approach, i think KFM has some interesting concepts that could definatly compliment stand up styles

@ 3:47 iz kewl[/quote]

Kinda reminds me of Kelly McCann’s “fending.” Very realistic type of defense, although it may not work so well in a ring.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Where do you find this kind of stuff? it’s really interesting.[/quote]

i’m in the army and free time is spent checking out new guns/gunfighting/and unarmed concepts

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Kinda reminds me of Kelly McCann’s “fending.” Very realistic type of defense, although it may not work so well in a ring.[/quote]

i agree 100% that this really isn’t practical for in the ring.

but incorperating into in your body’s ‘flinch mechanism’ in a self defense situation, especially one where you are confined, could give you a leg up

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Kinda reminds me of Kelly McCann’s “fending.” Very realistic type of defense, although it may not work so well in a ring.[/quote]

i agree 100% that this really isn’t practical for in the ring.

but incorperating into in your body’s ‘flinch mechanism’ in a self defense situation, especially one where you are confined, could give you a leg up[/quote]

Actually i think it works quite well that ground n pound one, i would probably puke from all those confusing steps although