T Nation

European Who Loves America


#1

I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don't think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up)

My country has a monarchy and like most of Europe is a nanny state with restrictions and general limitations on freedom comparative to the U.S. Nothing oppressive or dictatorial, we have elections etc and freedoms.
I have for the last few years identified with the U.S, ideologically, economically and hate the elitist nonsense Europeans generally spout about America.

I was wondering how Americans feel about European immigration to the U.S and how they feel someone should earn the right to become a citizen. Me and my girlfriend both have similar desires to live in the states despite being financially lacking at this current moment, when we have decent income and skills we hope to move and I was wondering what Americans feel like about this.


#2

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up) [/quote]

I have no problem with any immigrant who becomes a citizen legally, and shares yours feeling towards the country.

Sadly, most immigrants are the exact opposite.


#3

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up) [/quote]

I have no problem with any immigrant who becomes a citizen legally, and shares yours feeling towards the country.

[/quote]

This. If you love this place, work hard and aren’t an asshole, you’re good in my book.


#4

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up) [/quote]

I have no problem with any immigrant who becomes a citizen legally, and shares yours feeling towards the country.

Sadly, most immigrants are the exact opposite. [/quote]

I think a lot of immigrants have a much higher appreciation for the rights and privilleges the United states grants than many natural born americans have.
I remember a blog once by a Mexican-American who worked his way up from being a dishwasher to a head chef who lambasted alot of the younger generation of Americans who slam America, want something for nothing and don’t realise they hit the jackpot at birth.

Bourdain touched on it in one of his shows about how all the best french cooks he knows are Mexicans and they all worked themselves up like the Irish and the Italians before them haha.

I am sure there are some opportunistic immigrants though, but generally America is loved by people that is why so many want to go there. No one is sneaking across the border to get into Nigeria :smiley:


#5

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up) [/quote]

I have no problem with any immigrant who becomes a citizen legally, and shares yours feeling towards the country.

[/quote]

This. If you love this place, work hard and aren’t an asshole, you’re good in my book. [/quote]

Cheers man.


#6

Nobody here really has a problem with immigrants. The problem is its turned to a highly political issue to get more votes. Ironically half of Americans look to Europe as the ideal for the same reasons you’re thinking about leaving.


#7

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Nobody here really has a problem with immigrants. The problem is its turned to a highly political issue to get more votes. Ironically half of Americans look to Europe as the ideal for the same reasons you’re thinking about leaving.[/quote]

ugg, I hope it isn’t half…


#8

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Nobody here really has a problem with immigrants. The problem is its turned to a highly political issue to get more votes. Ironically half of Americans look to Europe as the ideal for the same reasons you’re thinking about leaving.[/quote]

ugg, I hope it isn’t half…[/quote]

I’ll make that trade in a heart beat. Everyone that thinks Europe is some utopia can GTFO and I’ll take any and every European that loves America.

We’ll all be happy as shit, and I’ll get to taste some new foods too. As long as those Brits don’t try and swipe our guns again, it would work out wonderfully, for the States at least.


#9

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Nobody here really has a problem with immigrants. The problem is its turned to a highly political issue to get more votes. Ironically half of Americans look to Europe as the ideal for the same reasons you’re thinking about leaving.[/quote]

ugg, I hope it isn’t half…[/quote]

I’ll make that trade in a heart beat. Everyone that thinks Europe is some utopia can GTFO and I’ll take any and every European that loves America.

We’ll all be happy as shit, and I’ll get to taste some new foods too. As long as those Brits don’t try and swipe our guns again, it would work out wonderfully, for the States at least. [/quote]

Yup.


#10

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up)

My country has a monarchy and like most of Europe is a nanny state with restrictions and general limitations on freedom comparative to the U.S. Nothing oppressive or dictatorial, we have elections etc and freedoms.
I have for the last few years identified with the U.S, ideologically, economically and hate the elitist nonsense Europeans generally spout about America.

I was wondering how Americans feel about European immigration to the U.S and how they feel someone should earn the right to become a citizen. Me and my girlfriend both have similar desires to live in the states despite being financially lacking at this current moment, when we have decent income and skills we hope to move and I was wondering what Americans feel like about this.

[/quote]

European countries have a thin veneer of freedom. The term for what they have over there is a soft dictatorship. You don’t have the stasi or kgb arbitrarily snatching people like they did in the old style hard dictatorships, instead they make targeted arrests and make an example of people who challenge the status quo.

America is great because the founders understood that none of the rights guaranteed in the first amendment would mean anything without the second amendment.

Monarchy is the opiate of the masses. I saw this when I was living in Britain. Every day the news had a segment dedicated to what the queen did today along with some bollocks about the lesser royals. The royal family has no authority or power but it provides an effective distraction from what the bastards in parliament are up to.

European elitists spout their crap because it is easier to look at other people’s problems that it is to look at their own. Europeans owe America for just about everything they have. None of the European countries could have built their vast welfare systems without the US paying for their security.


#11

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#12

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Nobody here really has a problem with immigrants. The problem is its turned to a highly political issue to get more votes. Ironically half of Americans look to Europe as the ideal for the same reasons you’re thinking about leaving.[/quote]

ugg, I hope it isn’t half…[/quote]

I’ll make that trade in a heart beat. Everyone that thinks Europe is some utopia can GTFO and I’ll take any and every European that loves America.

We’ll all be happy as shit, and I’ll get to taste some new foods too. As long as those Brits don’t try and swipe our guns again, it would work out wonderfully, for the States at least. [/quote]

When I was younger I fell hook line and sinker for the whole anti american pro socialist crap. Not until the last couple of years and actually reading stuff by Thomas Paine, Christopher Hitchens, reading books from varied political and philosophical sources did I change my views.

Most people think of anti Americanism as being left but it is actually right wing, it is European snobbery and bigotry the root cause of which is the fact we lost empire and are now not a major power. That and nationalism, royalism and class prejudice. English people often mock American culture, as if the average Englishmen who works a blue collar job is listening to Beethoven and reading Kant.

Do I think America is perfect? No of course that isn’t true but the framework for its society is far better than any other on the face of the planet.


#13

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

America is great because the founders understood that none of the rights guaranteed in the first amendment would mean anything without the second amendment.

[/quote]

Excellent point that I think many people (not progressives, of course, and probably not most Europeans) “get.”

I don’t really understand that claim, you can look at the national budget and see where our healthcare costs come from, it is from taxes, VAT etc. If you mean to say America funds western military ability that is true, but to be fair that is in the United states geo-political favour. It isn’t charity.
I don’t think America should be responsible for militarisation and equipping other nations. I do think Universal Healthcare via Thomas Paine’s plan to fund it through income tax etc would be a far better way to spend U.s citizens money than empire building and hegemony maintenance.


#14

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#15

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#16

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up)

My country has a monarchy and like most of Europe is a nanny state with restrictions and general limitations on freedom comparative to the U.S. Nothing oppressive or dictatorial, we have elections etc and freedoms.
I have for the last few years identified with the U.S, ideologically, economically and hate the elitist nonsense Europeans generally spout about America.

I was wondering how Americans feel about European immigration to the U.S and how they feel someone should earn the right to become a citizen. Me and my girlfriend both have similar desires to live in the states despite being financially lacking at this current moment, when we have decent income and skills we hope to move and I was wondering what Americans feel like about this.

[/quote]

Show up and have your GF give birth here. Kid’s a citizen and can act as an anchor baby. It’s apparently what everyone does.


#17

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

America is great because the founders understood that none of the rights guaranteed in the first amendment would mean anything without the second amendment.

[/quote]

Excellent point that I think many people (not progressives, of course, and probably not most Europeans) “get.”

I don’t really understand that claim, you can look at the national budget and see where our healthcare costs come from, it is from taxes, VAT etc. If you mean to say America funds western military ability that is true, but to be fair that is in the United states geo-political favour. It isn’t charity.
I don’t think America should be responsible for militarisation and equipping other nations. I do think Universal Healthcare via Thomas Paine’s plan to fund it through income tax etc would be a far better way to spend U.s citizens money than empire building and hegemony maintenance.

[/quote]

Of course, health care costs come from taxes. But now go figure what taxes Europeans would be paying if they were funding a defense budget that did not include direct and indirect American subsidies.

While you’re at it go figure where you and your European neighbors would be now without the Marshall Plan.[/quote]

What does the U.S currently give to Britain that it does not pay for?
As for the marshall plan yeah that is good, but lets not forget America stayed out of both world wars and loaned to the allies at insane interest which basically built modern American economic might and left the U.S ten steps ahead of everyone else.

I love America but I don’t love American chauvinists just like I don’t like British people being rude or grossly nationalistic.


#18

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#19

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
As for the marshall plan yeah that is good, but lets not forget America stayed out of both world wars and loaned to the allies at insane interest which basically built modern American economic might and left the U.S ten steps ahead of everyone else.[/quote]

Yup. Frequently conveniently forgotten by the “if we hadn’ta saved yer ass, yew’d be speakin’ GERMAN” crowd.

My sentiments exactly.

I love America. Seriously I do. But all the flag-waving and big “we’re number one” foam finger bullshit was a real downer for me.

I no longer live in the United States, so I won’t presume to give you any advice on immigrating, but as you are a British national, I might suggest you try Canada first. It has most of the advantages of the United States, with far fewer of the more distasteful attributes of either your home country or mine.

Unless you absolutely cannot survive without owning a military assault rifle and several cases of ammunition, are deeply religious and/or fanatical about American football, or have a medical condition which requires you to live in a Mediterranean or subtropical climate, you really wouldn’t be missing much by going to the “other” America instead.


#20

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

America is great because the founders understood that none of the rights guaranteed in the first amendment would mean anything without the second amendment.

[/quote]

Excellent point that I think many people (not progressives, of course, and probably not most Europeans) “get.”

I don’t really understand that claim, you can look at the national budget and see where our healthcare costs come from, it is from taxes, VAT etc. If you mean to say America funds western military ability that is true, but to be fair that is in the United states geo-political favour. It isn’t charity.
I don’t think America should be responsible for militarisation and equipping other nations. I do think Universal Healthcare via Thomas Paine’s plan to fund it through income tax etc would be a far better way to spend U.s citizens money than empire building and hegemony maintenance.

[/quote]

Of course, health care costs come from taxes. But now go figure what taxes Europeans would be paying if they were funding a defense budget that did not include direct and indirect American subsidies.

While you’re at it go figure where you and your European neighbors would be now without the Marshall Plan.[/quote]

What does the U.S currently give to Britain that it does not pay for?
As for the marshall plan yeah that is good, but lets not forget America stayed out of both world wars and loaned to the allies at insane interest which basically built modern American economic might and left the U.S ten steps ahead of everyone else.

I love America but I don’t love American chauvinists just like I don’t like British people being rude or grossly nationalistic.

[/quote]

Oh, good grief. The question now is do I take valuable minutes out of my day to respond to this drivel?[/quote]

Ooooh! Ooooh!

I know the answer!

It’s “Yes”!