T Nation

Europe is Dying and No One Talks About It?


Over the past year I've read that virtually every country in Europe has reached the tipping point in population growth and they are now shrinking. So in one or two generations Spain, for example, is going to lose more than half it's population ... that's like 20 million people!

Why is this not getting broader play in the media? European civilization is going to virtually disappear in a few generations ... shouldn't this be topic number one? No civilization in the history of the world has ever reversed this trend once it's started.

We keep hearing from liberals that we should be emulating the Europeans. What ... towards death?

It seems that when the Europeans were building their utopia they forgot one little ingredient ... having some children to pass it on to.

(Canada, Japan and Australia are all shrinking too ... the US is the only western democracy that still has a positive native birthrate btw)


No one talks about it? Everyone talks about it on the right, it's one of the standard tropes at places like National Review, and it is all that Mark Steyn ever talks about. If anything, I've gotten sick of hearing about it.

It's also more complicated than you make it sound, especially when it gets tied in to the basically bogus "Eurabia" argument (which relies on flawed statistics). France, one of the most secular and wealthy European nations, has, I think, a fertility rates very close to that of native-born U.S. citizens. And demographic decline is not confined to the secular, modernist West: Iran's fertility rate is in free-fall, to take one example. And check out U.S. fertility statistics some time, they are heavily influenced by fertility rates among recent immigrants.


Why on earth is it a bad thing to have a birthrate below the replacement level? The worldwide population explosion is the biggest threat to the human race in this century. Ideally the whole world should come down to the european level.

And btw during the past 8 years their was only one administration that tried to force its utopian philosophy on the rest of the world.


The right talks about this all the time. The left gives the standard response you hear from GDollars.

The white and black populations of the US is shrinking dramatically with respect to the Hispanics, and the elites think we'll maintain our level of civilization rather than turning into Brazil or Mexico. If you discuss things like this, you're a racist, so no one does.


As countries develop the birth rate tends to drop. America only had an increasing population because of immigration, though if the news report I heard is correct, that may have changed in recent years.


Have you seen a film called Idiocracy? It could be one of the reasons.

But in my opinion, I couldn't care less. I see it as the stong surviving and the weak dying out.

There's way too many people on this planet at the moment. We can't even sustain the numbers we have. Time for a shit load of people to die out I say!



...If they're shrinking... why would they keep shrinking?


One glaring flaw in these predictions is the assumption that medical science will not advance significantly enough in the next one or two generations to substantially affect deathrates.

Right now we are working on advances that are not going to be evolutionary but revolutionary. Even now ageing is not what it used to be. But policy vis a vis immigration is being made on the assumption that things will not change.

The real threat to European civilization is the demogaphic change caused unrestricted immigration of Muslims who have a much higher birth rate coupled with shrinking population.


Well you're right ... I get a lot of Steyn because I read his books, but I haven't seen anything on this from mainstream sources. I seem to recall the UN putting out some warning about imminent collapse in Russia due to it's low birthrate a few months ago, but that's about it.

My only explanation for why the left is ignoring this is because it reflects poorly on Europe and that's the model they'd like us to emulate? Ergo they cover their eyes and hope it goes away?


I think an aging population is of itself a big problem. Whether it's because we're living longer or due to low birth rates or a combination of both working together. You end up with 2 young people supporting 4 or 5 retired people. The growth and dynamism and progress you expect from a society come from the young ... if you don't have them you've got a big problem.

Yea ... bringing in tons of immigrants to deal with this demographic reality is another giant issue I agree ...


The problem with it ... put simply ... is that a shrinking civilization is a dying civilization.

And in regard to the population explosion being humanity's greatest threat ... there's nothing behind that but the statement. It's one of those things that get stated all the time and it's supposed to be accepted prima facie.

I don't think it's the greatest threat or even a threat.

What is a huge threat is indigenous Europe deciding not to perpetuate itself and importing a new majority of muslims to take the place of the children they couldn't be bothered to have ...


well, obviously, shrinking population can be reversed io too few people.
I do not care for France , they can disappear.
Perhaps some T gel given out to the public can reverse this!
There are billions of people on Earth, we can cut population by 80% and be BETTER off


What about those hand crystals?


Rather the Chinese than us

Ban the use of condoms


All the high Test men got killed off in the two wars. The ones left behind were all Beta males or gay. Remember in 'Saving Private Ryan' how at the end the dude shoots the German who actually looks like a man, and lets the little runts live? That's what happened. Its a Pussified Continent now, which is why the Muslims are invading.