T Nation

Eurabia 2015


#21

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
My point was, that for people who don’t believe in God or Christianity at any rate, maybe some relatively benign form of Islam in the future, for their descendants, might not be so bad from their perspective at any rate?[/quote]

If you don’t believe in Christianity because you deny the existence of God, why would you believe in Islam?[/quote]

I meant submit to Islam. Not necessarily believe. Although over generations it can amount to the same thing. Your son might believe even though you don’t for example. It happens quickly. Mass conversions have been common throughout history and for the most part they’re not forced.


#22

Here’s a short wiki on it


#23

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Here’s a short wiki on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Canada’s_Immigration_System_Act[/quote]

And of course, all sorts of radical NGOs like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are busy dismantling aspects of legislation that seek to control intake. There’s a huge movement of refugee “advocacy” groups that back them. Here in Australia these “advocacy” groups have been involved in breaking illegal aliens out of detention centres and harbouring them in trendy apartments in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney and elsewhere.

The real cost is in the legal disputes that asylum seekers set off and the years and years of fighting them in the courts and it’s all paid for by the public treasury. Even the ones deemed illegal end up staying for decades, literally, while they fight it out in the courts. And all the radical refugee and civil rights shysters are backing them and taking action on their behalf against the government and, in effect against the people of the country.


#24

“In an open letter to the authorities, 27 organisations have urged Switzerland to accommodate 100,000 Syrian refugees.”

cause that’s going to end well…


#25

[quote]Aggv wrote:

“In an open letter to the authorities, 27 organisations have urged Switzerland to accommodate 100,000 Syrian refugees.”

cause that’s going to end well…[/quote]

That’s the other thing about the UN mandate for developing nations to take refugees; it concentrates on “trouble spots” ie, war zones. You go into a civil war situation whether it be Lebanon or Sudan and the people you’re taking in are often the people who started the civil war and perpetrated the violence. So they’ve destroyed their own country, robbed and murdered their neighbours maybe, and then moved like locusts into Western welfare states and destroy them too.


#26

It’s not like other muslim nations are real eager to help, unless you consider funding the violence help?


#27

[quote]Aggv wrote:
It’s not like other muslim nations are real eager to help, unless you consider funding the violence help? [/quote]

Jordan has a huge refugee population and while far from perfect, I think they are one of the best hopes the Middle East has if it’s ever going to get on stable footing.

We will see what Sisi does with Egypt, but I have hopes for them as well.


#28

[quote]theuofh wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
It’s not like other muslim nations are real eager to help, unless you consider funding the violence help? [/quote]

Jordan has a huge refugee population and while far from perfect, I think they are one of the best hopes the Middle East has if it’s ever going to get on stable footing.

We will see what Sisi does with Egypt, but I have hopes for them as well.
[/quote]

The real worry is the turn Turkey has taken towards Islamisation. The “deep state” that used to be staunchly secular now appears at best acquiescent to radical Islam. Turkey and Egypt are the largest military powers in the region after Israel and Turkey has traditionally been a stabilising, secular and relatively pro-Western force. But now they’ve gone over to the dark side and they’ve got a fully fledged IslamoNazi regime. And Egypt’s brief interlude with the Muslim Brotherhood was very worrying after 30 years of relative peace in the region. Add to that Iran’s machinations, the sectarian war and vanguard Sunni jihadists etc and the situation is very unstable.


#29

This is truly sad:


#30

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
This is truly sad:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/10/hundreds-no-go-zones-across-france-are-limits-non-muslims[/quote]

The Jews are fleeing to Israel. But where can the native Europeans go? There’s going to be real trouble in Europe again within the next few decades.


#31

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
This is truly sad:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/10/hundreds-no-go-zones-across-france-are-limits-non-muslims[/quote]

The Jews are fleeing to Israel. But where can the native Europeans go? There’s going to be real trouble in Europe again within the next few decades.[/quote]

I think they’re already out numbered, and probably fucked.


#32

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
This is truly sad:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/10/hundreds-no-go-zones-across-france-are-limits-non-muslims[/quote]

The Jews are fleeing to Israel. But where can the native Europeans go? There’s going to be real trouble in Europe again within the next few decades.[/quote]

I think they’re already out numbered, and probably fucked.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/01/britain-most-popular-baby-name-muhammad[/quote]

And they’re all unarmed the poor bastards. 99.9% of them would have no idea about how to operate a firearm and (right now) even less interest. Self defence never really enters their mindset as a serious proposition. They’re like lambs waiting to be slaughtered.


#33

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Here’s a short wiki on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Canada’s_Immigration_System_Act[/quote]

And of course, all sorts of radical NGOs like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are busy dismantling aspects of legislation that seek to control intake. There’s a huge movement of refugee “advocacy” groups that back them. Here in Australia these “advocacy” groups have been involved in breaking illegal aliens out of detention centres and harbouring them in trendy apartments in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney and elsewhere.

The real cost is in the legal disputes that asylum seekers set off and the years and years of fighting them in the courts and it’s all paid for by the public treasury. Even the ones deemed illegal end up staying for decades, literally, while they fight it out in the courts. And all the radical refugee and civil rights shysters are backing them and taking action on their behalf against the government and, in effect against the people of the country.[/quote]

Default, provided they’re not birthright citizens, should be for them to “wait it out” where they’re originally from.


#34

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
This is truly sad:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/10/hundreds-no-go-zones-across-france-are-limits-non-muslims[/quote]

This has to be a joke. They actually let them create “no-go zones” where Sharia Law was the mandate. What the fuck were they thinking ? lol


#35

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
This is the lead article on the Drudge Report today:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2015-01-08/europe-s-islam-debate-erupts-as-paris-killers-at-large

It’s worth reading. Europe is in a shambles again for a third time in a century. Any thoughts on what’s happening in Europe? What could those of us in North America and Australia and Japan and elsewhere in the West learn from this? Will we be having troubles on the scale of Europe’s troubles soon?

Something I found interesting; in the decade following the 9/11 attacks the global Muslim population went through a dramatic population boom going from 22% of the world’s population in 2001 to 30% of the world’s population by 2011 and even higher today. The years since 9/11 have also seen a dramatic rise in the number of migrants from Muslim countries. Indeed, in Southern and Western Europe it has become a veritable flood as waves of poor economic migrants flow Northwards into the waiting arms of nanny-States just begging to be taken advantage of.

My honest opinion is that people are so disoriented by modernity and lack of values that they crave the austere formalism and certainty of Islam. I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. Can you imagine your grandchildren or great grandchildren one day becoming practicing Muslims and living in some sort of theocratic state?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Well, I think the idea of the EU was better then the actuality of it. Merging economies may seem like a good idea, but the inevitable after birth of it also making universal social policy forced on vastly different cultures who tend to be extremely patriotic is divisive.

The creation of the EU made it extremely easy to hide. A lack of identity and the ability to move freely from country to country, seems to me to be inviting to those who have radical ideas.
A robust welfare program afford people time maneuver without having to be concerned with survival.
Being such an entity, while also being geopolitically close to the most dangerous places on Earth is an open invitation to those who wish to export radical islam to the west.


Terrorism in Europe, I believe, is going to give rise to an ideological trench warfare. While we talk of separating the ‘good’ muslims from the ‘bad’, such ideals in Europe are falling by the wayside. Europeans, it seems to me, are tired of making, or even trying to make the distinction. My experience is that, though more subtle, Europeans tend to be more racist than what we are used to in the U.S. I think the distinction between ‘types’ of muslims are going to, more and more, stop being made. While seemingly more tolerant, initially, of muslim immigrants into Europe, as more and more acts of terror happen in Europe, the people are going to turn on their immigration population. They don’t care if your good or bad, they want your ass out. I think that is the future, I believe it’s already starting. The backlash against islam in Europe, is growing. So it’s going to lead to more of the muslims being radicalize, and the populations in Europe grow completely intolerant of muslims, good, bad or indifferent.


#36

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]theuofh wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
It’s not like other muslim nations are real eager to help, unless you consider funding the violence help? [/quote]

Jordan has a huge refugee population and while far from perfect, I think they are one of the best hopes the Middle East has if it’s ever going to get on stable footing.

We will see what Sisi does with Egypt, but I have hopes for them as well.
[/quote]

The real worry is the turn Turkey has taken towards Islamisation. The “deep state” that used to be staunchly secular now appears at best acquiescent to radical Islam. Turkey and Egypt are the largest military powers in the region after Israel and Turkey has traditionally been a stabilising, secular and relatively pro-Western force. But now they’ve gone over to the dark side and they’ve got a fully fledged IslamoNazi regime. And Egypt’s brief interlude with the Muslim Brotherhood was very worrying after 30 years of relative peace in the region. Add to that Iran’s machinations, the sectarian war and vanguard Sunni jihadists etc and the situation is very unstable.
[/quote]

Turkey is an interesting problem. While I believe the majority of Europeans are more and more anti-islamic, it’s tough to tell which way Turkey is going to land. Their large mulsim population give one the impression that they would fall in favor of islam, but there is a large secular lifestyle and movement there as well.


#37

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]theuofh wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
It’s not like other muslim nations are real eager to help, unless you consider funding the violence help? [/quote]

Jordan has a huge refugee population and while far from perfect, I think they are one of the best hopes the Middle East has if it’s ever going to get on stable footing.

We will see what Sisi does with Egypt, but I have hopes for them as well.
[/quote]

The real worry is the turn Turkey has taken towards Islamisation. The “deep state” that used to be staunchly secular now appears at best acquiescent to radical Islam. Turkey and Egypt are the largest military powers in the region after Israel and Turkey has traditionally been a stabilising, secular and relatively pro-Western force. But now they’ve gone over to the dark side and they’ve got a fully fledged IslamoNazi regime. And Egypt’s brief interlude with the Muslim Brotherhood was very worrying after 30 years of relative peace in the region. Add to that Iran’s machinations, the sectarian war and vanguard Sunni jihadists etc and the situation is very unstable.
[/quote]

Turkey is an interesting problem. While I believe the majority of Europeans are more and more anti-islamic, it’s tough to tell which way Turkey is going to land. Their large mulsim population give one the impression that they would fall in favor of islam, but there is a large secular lifestyle and movement there as well. [/quote]

I was speaking “Islamic” in terms of their foreign policy. How orthodox they are domestically is a different story. For example, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are both Wahhabi theocracies. Saudi Arabia is much stricter domestically with “moral” police and sex segregation and so on. But the Qatari regime has allied itself much more openly with radical Islamist movements. With Turkey, they may have a relatively(although less so) secular culture at home but the regime and the people to an extent support the radical internationalist vanguard Sunni jihadism.


#38

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

The Jews are fleeing to Israel. But where can the native Europeans go? [/quote]

Idaho and Montana, along with all of the other white people.


#39

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
This is the lead article on the Drudge Report today:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2015-01-08/europe-s-islam-debate-erupts-as-paris-killers-at-large

It’s worth reading. Europe is in a shambles again for a third time in a century. Any thoughts on what’s happening in Europe? What could those of us in North America and Australia and Japan and elsewhere in the West learn from this? Will we be having troubles on the scale of Europe’s troubles soon?

Something I found interesting; in the decade following the 9/11 attacks the global Muslim population went through a dramatic population boom going from 22% of the world’s population in 2001 to 30% of the world’s population by 2011 and even higher today. The years since 9/11 have also seen a dramatic rise in the number of migrants from Muslim countries. Indeed, in Southern and Western Europe it has become a veritable flood as waves of poor economic migrants flow Northwards into the waiting arms of nanny-States just begging to be taken advantage of.

My honest opinion is that people are so disoriented by modernity and lack of values that they crave the austere formalism and certainty of Islam. I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. Can you imagine your grandchildren or great grandchildren one day becoming practicing Muslims and living in some sort of theocratic state?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Well, I think the idea of the EU was better then the actuality of it. Merging economies may seem like a good idea, but the inevitable after birth of it also making universal social policy forced on vastly different cultures who tend to be extremely patriotic is divisive.

The creation of the EU made it extremely easy to hide. A lack of identity and the ability to move freely from country to country, seems to me to be inviting to those who have radical ideas.
A robust welfare program afford people time maneuver without having to be concerned with survival.
Being such an entity, while also being geopolitically close to the most dangerous places on Earth is an open invitation to those who wish to export radical islam to the west.


Terrorism in Europe, I believe, is going to give rise to an ideological trench warfare. While we talk of separating the ‘good’ muslims from the ‘bad’, such ideals in Europe are falling by the wayside. Europeans, it seems to me, are tired of making, or even trying to make the distinction. My experience is that, though more subtle, Europeans tend to be more racist than what we are used to in the U.S. I think the distinction between ‘types’ of muslims are going to, more and more, stop being made. While seemingly more tolerant, initially, of muslim immigrants into Europe, as more and more acts of terror happen in Europe, the people are going to turn on their immigration population. They don’t care if your good or bad, they want your ass out. I think that is the future, I believe it’s already starting. The backlash against islam in Europe, is growing. So it’s going to lead to more of the muslims being radicalize, and the populations in Europe grow completely intolerant of muslims, good, bad or indifferent. [/quote]

I would argue it was a terrible idea, executed perfectly. It was inevitably going to result in the less prosperous parts of Europe migrating to the more successful parts. Combine that with the mutual recognition of refugee status and you have a recipe for disaster. The least prosperous peoples and a high proportion of the influx of refugees that enter anywhere in Europe will all go to the UK, the Nordic states, or Germany.

The UK is turning to the less observably racist UKIP, while France and the Nordic states run headlong into the far right. FN will be a major player in the next French election and if they win, then the beast is well and truly out of its cage.

I cannot imagine how continental Europe will look in 20 years if something doesn’t change. The UK and Ireland will likely exit and indulge in isolationism if the worst materializes, as they have done with continental politics many times before.


#40

Great article about a book explaining the topic of this thread in a futuristic novel.