T Nation

Eurabia 2015


#1

This is the lead article on the Drudge Report today:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2015-01-08/europe-s-islam-debate-erupts-as-paris-killers-at-large

It's worth reading. Europe is in a shambles again for a third time in a century. Any thoughts on what's happening in Europe? What could those of us in North America and Australia and Japan and elsewhere in the West learn from this? Will we be having troubles on the scale of Europe's troubles soon?

Something I found interesting; in the decade following the 9/11 attacks the global Muslim population went through a dramatic population boom going from 22% of the world's population in 2001 to 30% of the world's population by 2011 and even higher today. The years since 9/11 have also seen a dramatic rise in the number of migrants from Muslim countries. Indeed, in Southern and Western Europe it has become a veritable flood as waves of poor economic migrants flow Northwards into the waiting arms of nanny-States just begging to be taken advantage of.

My honest opinion is that people are so disoriented by modernity and lack of values that they crave the austere formalism and certainty of Islam. I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. Can you imagine your grandchildren or great grandchildren one day becoming practicing Muslims and living in some sort of theocratic state?

Any thoughts?


#2

In 2013, U.S. immigration population reached a record of 41 million. Since 2000, it’s up over 10 million.

Most noted, from 2010-13 immigration from the Mid East is up 208,000 a 13% growth. That doesn’t include the numbers from Africa.


#3

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. [/quote]

I think the problem is that people aren’t thinking at all, wrt the policies they have in place with immigration. I don’t feel compelled or required to allow refugees or immigrants citizenship or admission if they’re not bringing anything to the table. Even more so if they’re bottom of the barrel and don’t care to integrate and simply want to take advantage of the great countries that our forefathers have built.

I sure as shit fucking hope not. I’ll do what I can to prevent this.


#4

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
This is the lead article on the Drudge Report today:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2015-01-08/europe-s-islam-debate-erupts-as-paris-killers-at-large

It’s worth reading. Europe is in a shambles again for a third time in a century. Any thoughts on what’s happening in Europe? What could those of us in North America and Australia and Japan and elsewhere in the West learn from this? Will we be having troubles on the scale of Europe’s troubles soon?

Something I found interesting; in the decade following the 9/11 attacks the global Muslim population went through a dramatic population boom going from 22% of the world’s population in 2001 to 30% of the world’s population by 2011 and even higher today. The years since 9/11 have also seen a dramatic rise in the number of migrants from Muslim countries. Indeed, in Southern and Western Europe it has become a veritable flood as waves of poor economic migrants flow Northwards into the waiting arms of nanny-States just begging to be taken advantage of.

My honest opinion is that people are so disoriented by modernity and lack of values that they crave the austere formalism and certainty of Islam. I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. Can you imagine your grandchildren or great grandchildren one day becoming practicing Muslims and living in some sort of theocratic state?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Europe is being chewed up by the suicide pact known as the Maastricht treaty. None of the foundational “3 pillars” of European freedoms have not had catastrophic consequences (aside from free movement of goods).

Best advice is to not get tricked into relaxing your far superior border controls by the “you guys are racist” bait. Though the Yanks seem to be having some trouble squaring that one on their Southern border at the minute, the Aussies and Japanese seem to be having no issues in taking only who they want.

Your problems will not be to the scale of Europe’s, but internally within Europe, some countries are going to be bitten far harder than others. The British may have their “Brexit,” and after the HR act is repealed, all bets are off. So it may be the closest to danger, but simultaneously the furthest from harm.

As to your reasoning, I think the postmodern lack of orientation has a very indictable role in all of this. Just as I think the Thatcherite promotion of selfish individualism has a role. I don’t think we offer a counter-narrative with any convincing strength and we are reaping the consequences of decades of an over-mighty political class who are out of touch with their electorate and the problems they face.

As to the last point, I can imagine a lot of things. I do think Europe can pull out of its death spiral, if it wakes up to the fact that it is in one.


#5

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. [/quote]

I think the problem is that people aren’t thinking at all, wrt the policies they have in place with immigration. I don’t feel compelled or required to allow refugees or immigrants citizenship or admission if they’re not bringing anything to the table. Even more so if they’re bottom of the barrel and don’t care to integrate and simply want to take advantage of the great countries that our forefathers have built.

I sure as shit fucking hope not. I’ll do what I can to prevent this.[/quote]

It’s sad looking at these old institutions decaying around us I think. All the little 19th Century stone churches dotted across the landscape are closing down from lack of attendance. They rent them out for stamp collector shows and ballroom dancing. And the old Freemasons temples closing down everywhere and being turned into cafes or trendy wine bars and night clubs. My point was, that for people who don’t believe in God or Christianity at any rate, maybe some relatively benign form of Islam in the future, for their descendants, might not be so bad from their perspective at any rate?


#6

Edited

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

Europe is being chewed up by the suicide pact known as the Maastricht treaty.

[/quote]

Yes I know.

Not so much with Australia but it’s a bit better under conservative(Liberal/National) governments. But we still take in huge numbers of people from the third world and trouble spots in the third world, legally, in order to fulfil obligations entered into with the various bodies of international law. This body of law forces Western countries to take in a certain number of “refugees” - meeting the definition of “refugee” often entails entering the country illegally, destroying your own travel documents on arrival then tell a fantastic story of woe and hardship and that you can’t go back home or you’ll be killed. All this ties up the courts at tax payer expense. Radical human rights lawyers sue the state on the refugees’ behalf for compensation and they agitate for their release and so on. The majority end up staying and not only are the not net contributors to the economy, they’re a terrible strain on public services and huge welfare recipients. On top of that, the ones from trouble spots like the Lebanese that came here during the civil war or the Sudanese Muslim communities being forced on us - they’re committing an epidemic of (often brutal) crime and on the fringes terrorist plots.

Well certainly few in the west believe in anything enough to die for it. A lot of people say they’d die for “freedom” but the ones who cry the most are often the first to make compromises. And “freedom” is becoming something entirely different today than what the enlightenment radicals like Locke and Montesquieu understood as freedom. In a purely consumer culture with a complete void of conviction and sense of purpose people forego freedom for comfort and security. This can work out okay for a while in a homogenous society but when strains emerge the civil society, or what’s left of it, will just drift away on the wind and society will collapse into barbarism.

[quote]

As to the last point, I can imagine a lot of things. I do think Europe can pull out of its death spiral, if it wakes up to the fact that it is in one. [/quote]

Unfortunately I think it’s a fate accompli for everywhere except Eastern Europe. A Japanese friend of mine told me years ago that most countries in the West are about 30 years too late to reverse course. As you know, Enoch Powell spoke(awkwardly) about the radical transformation of society and that was back in the 60’s. If you look at the numbers and the fertility rates of respective parties and follow the trend the whole thing is gone by about 2050. So what can I say? A managed decline? That’s what’s on the cards.

What concerns me is when large, third world migrant communities turn on what’s left of the hosts. Their attention is on the Jews as well as we are seeing. Not a very fitting end to such a noble enterprise as Western civilisation.


#7

There was a current affairs show here in Australia that revealed huge numbers of “refugees” who got citizenship on the grounds that they couldn’t go home or they’ll be killed; then once they’ve got their citizenship they travel back home for holidays. They also massively abuse the chain migration laws to bring in their extended families. If you look at the cost to the public treasury in terms of welfare and the cost of and strain on public services, together with the massive legal costs as every one of them ties up the courts and every verdict is appealed and appealed again.

Then there are the Balkanised communities - the Sudanese Muslims we bring in often move into cheap houses in rural areas and country towns. They don’t speak a word of English, they’re all on welfare and know how to work the system, and they live in large communes with dozens of them. At night time it’s no longer safe on the streets of some of these country towns as huge gangs of these Sudanese “youths” roam the streets attacking, robbing and raping people.

One of my aunties lives in an old country town with a Sudanese population. She has worked voluntarily at a church group that collects and gives food and clothing to the poor. She said the Sudanese there completely abuse the charity and demand they buy them food and take big boxes of clothes and try to sell them and so on. In the papers the other day a group of them attacked a guy at an ATM machine with a hammer, took his money and left him for dead with a fractured skull. These sorts of crimes that were unheard of in these little, old towns are now commonplace events and it’s always the same perpetrators.


#8

I haven’t gotten the hang of the quoting system yet, so I’ll just reply without quoting.

The same radicals are sapping the Irish courts time as well. A friend of mine works for the Department of immigration and the stories he tells are incredible.

I would query that most in the west believe in anything like freedom. I would say it isn’t capitulation for most, as much as it is a revelation of their true ideology. They value niceties far more than the rights that allowed them to agitate for said niceties in the first place.
The outrageous coverage from the Guardian on the attack is a prime example of this ideology in action. Though I am sure you are more than aware of this stripe of neo-marxist.

As to the last paragraph, I am familiar with Enoch Powell. It is hard to deny the compelling prescience of the speech. I am not that confident in most European countries reversing this trend, I do think some of them can. Europe in 2050 or 2100 will be unrecognisable on much of the mainland. I think as it spins out of control, the Irish and British will just detach themselves from the continent as they have done several times before.
But with modern technology and travel? Who knows? Your Japanese friend could be right.


#9

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
There was a current affairs show here in Australia that revealed huge numbers of “refugees” who got citizenship on the grounds that they couldn’t go home or they’ll be killed; then once they’ve got their citizenship they travel back home for holidays. They also massively abuse the chain migration laws to bring in their extended families. If you look at the cost to the public treasury in terms of welfare and the cost of and strain on public services, together with the massive legal costs as every one of them ties up the courts and every verdict is appealed and appealed again. Then there are the Balkanised communities - the Sudanese Muslims we bring in often move into cheap houses in rural areas and country towns. They don’t speak a word of English, they’re all on welfare and know how to work the system, and they live in large communes with dozens of them. At night time it’s no longer safe on the streets of some of these country towns as huge gangs of these Sudanese “youths” roam the streets attacking, robbing and raping people.

One of my aunties lives in an old country town with a Sudanese population. She has worked voluntarily at a church group that collects and gives food and clothing to the poor. She said the Sudanese there completely abuse the charity and demand they buy them food and take big boxes of clothes and try to sell them and so on. In the papers the other day a group of them attacked a guy at an ATM machine with a hammer, took his money and left him for dead with a fractured skull. These sorts of crimes that were unheard of in these little, old towns are now commonplace events and it’s always the same perpetrators.[/quote]

This is disturbingly familiar to the Irish and British experience. My Mother works for St Vincent De Paul, and the same trend of abuse of services is very common. The same is true, almost word for word, of my friend’s experience in the immigration office. Refugee status followed immediately by returning to said State and then years in the welfare system.
Ireland’s luck may be the relative homogeneity in the immigrant populations. Britain is acting as the lightning rod for Islamic immigrants right now.


#10

Looking forward to an English translation:


#11

Some countries borders must be sealed. Meaning no one out. Treat them as an Ebola infested piece of dirt.

I would start with Somalia. No one out. I can think of a few far left loonies that I would deport in though given my drouthers.

Every country ending in -Stan. Seal the border damn it! No one out! They would have to call Snake Fuckin Pliskin if they wanted out!

ENOUGH!


#12

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Some countries borders must be sealed. Meaning no one out. Treat them as an Ebola infested piece of dirt.

I would start with Somalia. No one out. I can think of a few far left loonies that I would deport in though given my drouthers.

Every country ending in -Stan. Seal the border damn it! No one out! They would have to call Snake Fuckin Pliskin if they wanted out!

ENOUGH![/quote]

how old are you?


#13

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

It’s worth reading. Europe is in a shambles again for a third time in a century. Any thoughts on what’s happening in Europe? What could those of us in North America and Australia and Japan and elsewhere in the West learn from this? Will we be having troubles on the scale of Europe’s troubles soon? [/quote]

I doubt it in the US. A lot of that has to do with geography. USA has a much better chance of having more Latino influence than Islamic influence going forward. And Japan is homogeneous and doesn’t have much immigration at all. There economy is dying b/c of low birth rates and almost no immigration. This is definitely a Europe problem, which is logical given it’s proximity to Muslim countries and it’s historical colonialism.

I think there’s plenty of backlash to this going on right now in Europe. It may lead to new restrictions as people are getting pissed off and vocal about it. It looks like people ARE awake and want action taken. Maybe also there are systems put in place where those who make the effort to assimilate are rewarded and those that don’t are punished.

[quote]My honest opinion is that people are so disoriented by modernity and lack of values that they crave the austere formalism and certainty of Islam. I think some people in the West have thought ahead and realised that their grandchildren may live in a very different world and will adopt, perhaps forcibly, perhaps not so much, the religion and culture of Islam. Can you imagine your grandchildren or great grandchildren one day becoming practicing Muslims and living in some sort of theocratic state?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

I see your thought pattern but don’t agree (for the USA anyway). I’m not seeing any anecdotal evidence of secular Americans craving Islamic lifestyles or romanticizing and glorifying it. Most are ignorant of the culture as well as scared of it. There’s also plenty of austere formalism and certainty in Catholicism which is already the most popular religion in the USA.

Where there could be Americans looking toward Islam is the black community. I know two black kids (yes I know small anecdotal sample size) from my high school football days (we were a Catholic school) who became Muslim and you would have never predicted that would happen. Just from random FB posts, it appears they adopted Islam for the reasons you posit, and also a sense of breaking away from white culture and dominance.


#14

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Some countries borders must be sealed. Meaning no one out. Treat them as an Ebola infested piece of dirt.

I would start with Somalia. No one out. I can think of a few far left loonies that I would deport in though given my drouthers.

Every country ending in -Stan. Seal the border damn it! No one out! They would have to call Snake Fuckin Pliskin if they wanted out!

ENOUGH![/quote]

how old are you?
[/quote]

Old enough to stock up on ammo son.


#15

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:
Best advice is to not get tricked into relaxing your far superior border controls by the “you guys are racist” bait. [/quote]

Considering the constant race baiting in this country over anything and everything, this is going to be our downfall.


#16

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
There was a current affairs show here in Australia that revealed huge numbers of “refugees” who got citizenship on the grounds that they couldn’t go home or they’ll be killed; then once they’ve got their citizenship they travel back home for holidays. They also massively abuse the chain migration laws to bring in their extended families. If you look at the cost to the public treasury in terms of welfare and the cost of and strain on public services, together with the massive legal costs as every one of them ties up the courts and every verdict is appealed and appealed again.

Then there are the Balkanised communities - the Sudanese Muslims we bring in often move into cheap houses in rural areas and country towns. They don’t speak a word of English, they’re all on welfare and know how to work the system, and they live in large communes with dozens of them. At night time it’s no longer safe on the streets of some of these country towns as huge gangs of these Sudanese “youths” roam the streets attacking, robbing and raping people.

One of my aunties lives in an old country town with a Sudanese population. She has worked voluntarily at a church group that collects and gives food and clothing to the poor. She said the Sudanese there completely abuse the charity and demand they buy them food and take big boxes of clothes and try to sell them and so on. In the papers the other day a group of them attacked a guy at an ATM machine with a hammer, took his money and left him for dead with a fractured skull. These sorts of crimes that were unheard of in these little, old towns are now commonplace events and it’s always the same perpetrators.[/quote]

That’s sad stuff. I’m not for diffusing responsibility. Clearly these refugee turned citizens aren’t people most would want to invite to their BBQ.

But what did you expect? Take a bunch of poor, uneducated, unskilled people from a country with a shit culture. Give them access to a bunch of free stuff they obviously become accustomed to and quickly feel entitled to. Have these same people all congregate in the same communities so they aren’t exposed to anything but their backward ways they learned back in Sudan. Of course they’re going to be uncivilized.

In general, all 1st world countries that allow substantial amounts of immigration of unskilled people from chaotic countries need to actually have a plan in place to integrate them. Giving them a bunch of free shit and expecting them to become exemplary citizens is a pipe dream. If there’s no will to make a plan and implement it, then it’s a bad idea to grant these people citizenship.

Governments need to take more responsibility b/c it’s a bad bet to expect Sudanese refugees to magically civilize themselves and learn a new worldview and way of life. That, or you don’t allow them in. Can’t have it both ways.


#17

SM, do you know any further reading on the international law agreements you mentioned?

I heard recently in Canada, that we were adopting a “bootstrap” immigration policy, and moving away from the next-in-line process of immigration, as in you just wait until your application is done processing, and you gain entry.
Here’s some links on the bootstrap policy
https://www.cigionline.org/publications/bootstrap-immigrants-assessing-conservative-transformation-of-canadas-immigration-polic
PDF

Short article that goes in to some of the tidbits of the policies.


#18

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
My point was, that for people who don’t believe in God or Christianity at any rate, maybe some relatively benign form of Islam in the future, for their descendants, might not be so bad from their perspective at any rate?[/quote]

If you don’t believe in Christianity because you deny the existence of God, why would you believe in Islam?


#19

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
SM, do you know any further reading on the international law agreements you mentioned?

[/quote]

A little bit. I should probably look into more because immigration has been a major issue for me my whole life. Basically, international law splits the world up into the “developed world” countries and the “developing world” countries and imposes enormous draconian obligations on the “developed world” - in this case, the UNHCR administers it. That’s the same body that has been pandering to the Palestinians for the last 70 years. Developed countries have a “humanitarian” refugee intake requirement that focuses on “hot spots” - war zones, around the world. I’ve only got stats for Australia but I assume the program is similarly structured for the US humanitarian refugee intake.

https://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

They(globalists) like to call them “asylum seekers” and they’re busy trying to erode the sovereignty of Western nation states to secure and regulate their own borders.

Thanks. I’ll try to find some links that are more relevant to US immigration when I can and post them here.


#20

[quote]BPCorso wrote:

I doubt it in the US. A lot of that has to do with geography. USA has a much better chance of having more Latino influence than Islamic influence going forward.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s very true. There are however hotspots where immigrant communities have Balkanised themselves onto the landscape like the Somalis in parts of Minesotta. But overall it will be a very different picture you’re right.

I know. They’ve got a really good immigration policy.

That’s right. Although they had a postwar business management and tec boom they ran into financial mismanagement. Coupled with the nihilism and low birth rate and the social disintegration they’re in big trouble.

I think it’s too late. You’d have to start deporting citizens and that’s never going to happen. This will bring about a rise in separatist movements and pushes for local autonomy. The first step is for them to untangle themselves from the EU.

Quite a few post-911 converts to Islam though. A not insignificant number of people are attracted to it. Look at all the Westerners joining groups like IS.

Many see mainstream Christianity to have been woosified/egalitarian and to no longer stand for the things it once did. That’s not necessarily what I’m saying but it’s what people dissatisfied with mainstream Christianity themselves say - like catholic traditionalists who reject Vat II for example.

Yep. And it’s been relatively popular for a long time. Although, rather than traditional Islam, the NOI and a few similar groups created their own version. The Nation of Islam is syncretic and adapts elements of Christianity in order to appeal to the much larger black Christian community. But their teachings put them far outside any kind of Islamic orthodoxy that would be acceptable to anyone other than themselves.

[quote]
I know two black kids (yes I know small anecdotal sample size) from my high school football days (we were a Catholic school) who became Muslim and you would have never predicted that would happen. Just from random FB posts, it appears they adopted Islam for the reasons you posit, and also a sense of breaking away from white culture and dominance.[/quote]

Yes, it’s very much a political vehicle for many.