T Nation

Eugenics in Europe


#1

However in Ohio

Will Down syndrome be ending via abortion? Will this trend in Europe move on to other conditions and to what extent?


#2

Now, I suppose pretty much everyone will be outraged with what I’ll write here…

I have four kids and for each of them we’ve done a prenatal test for genetic deficiencies, including Down syndrome.

Me and my wife decided that we’d resort to abortion in case of a positive diagnosis for Down as well as other deficiencies.

Living with such an individual takes an incredible moral, physical and emotional toll in the longterm on his caretakers and family members. I’m speaking from personal experience.


#3

Your argument boils down to this:

That human being will cause me to be inconvenienced so I have the right to kill him…


#4

To be clear, down syndrome isn’t ending, they are exterminating people who have it. Like, Humans in the womb will still continue to have it.


#5

Pretty much. You sound like a terrible human being. Fortunately, me not liking you isn’t grounds for ending your life.


#6

Nope, that’s not a human being yet.

But the debate boils down to the pro/anti abortion argument.


#7

Define human being.


#8

It’s hard to imagine how this will be enforceable. Couldn’t a women just say she’s having an abortion for another reason, or obtain testing out of state?


#9

A friend of mine had testing done on their first child and it came back positive for downs. Their Dr recommended they kill the baby before it was born. They chose not to and he was perfectly fine when he came out.


#10

It does seem that way. Have an unborn child that will most likely be unable to live a normal life? Can’t kill that baby. Have an unborn child that failed to keep your sorry-assed boyfriend with your sorry-ass? Dismember that fetus and activate the vacuum!


#11

…Slowly backs out before bursting a blood vessel.


#12

I can’t wait until the day that I get to be a human being.


#13

Do you know how you can drastically reduce the number of abortions? Find like minded individuals and drive to the nearest abortion clinic. Whenever a woman comes to the clinic for initial consultations await her outside and dissuade from the horrible act by one of you pledging to adopt the potential baby once it’s born.

Simple as that. You can save thousands upon thousands of fetuses by a massive adoption drive if you all band together.


#14

You realize there is no shortage of parents that would love to adopt a newborn, don’t you? Are you aware how many groups currently do EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED?

The privilege to not be murdered by virtue of my inconvenience towards others sounds wonderful, and I would love to gain that privilege as I apparently have not yet done so, since there is absolutely nothing that precludes a fetus from being a human being that wouldn’t also preclude my self.


#15

Better living. Through science!


#16

Go out and kick a pregnant woman in the belly and see if criminal law thinks it’s a human being or not. On the flip side the same embryo that can be assaulted and murdered by an assailant and it’s a crime can Willy nilly be murdered by their mother?


#17

Pretty much. This is where I figured people would line up on either end of the “Is this morally reprehensible” question. I’m much more interested in the “How far will this go” question. And not to drag this into another socialized healthcare debate, it seems far more likely that state run medicine will have a greater incentive to push for and even mandate this type of thing in the future.


#18

Brave post. I’m for a woman’s right to choose and my wife and I would not make that choice. I also know the struggle as my moms cousin had a 22 year old son with Downs pass away three years ago. She dedicated her life to helping him and luckily she had a supportive family and an incredibly high paying job.

That said what’s weird is how so many pro lifers would be in shock and horror at you for that but vote for people who work to drastically reduce funding for public education, welfare for needy families and children, access to health care etc. it’s typically strong pro life states where these things are in the most jeopardy. It’s horrific to not have that kid but don’t expect help if something horrible happens mentality.


#19

Yes, everybody acts like it’s just a casual murder of unborn children for the sake of “convenience”.

It’s a horrifyingly complex issue, where parents-caretakers have to make devastating personal, ethical and moral choices while raising mentally challenged individuals.

Here’s a Sophia’s choice for you, one that I’ve personally witnessed - when you’re a round-the-clock caretaker of one such severely challenged individual and you start growing old, dealing with a serious long-term health issue that prevents you from caring for the said individual, what do you do?

Does one of your other kids who are entering into adulthood, whom you’ve raised and educated at a tremendous personal cost, take over? Because moral high ground aside, you’d pretty much would be fucking them over - they couldn’t have a career they’ve been educating themselves for, not to mention the effect round-the-clock care would have on their personal life and prospective partners in life.

Or do you put one of your kids - your flesh and blood - into an institution?


#20

That’s because what you posted has nothing to do with eugenics. Those with Down’s syndrome are sterile. There’s no such thing as a carrier. It happens completely by chance as far as current science is concerned. Everything you have posted is about eliminating downs through abortion or preventing those abortions, and aborting those with downs does absolutely nothing to prevent others from having it. Of course this is an abortion thread.