T Nation

Estrogen's Effects


Everyone should read this. Of course this is nothing new at T-Nation. I'm sure in ten years we will hear something about the many hermaphrodite people walking around too.

Here is an argument to the guy that recently asked 'Is it better to eat Organic?'


To anyone who reads this:

The link takes you to the second page so you have to scroll to the bottom and go back one page to start the story at the beginning.



Sorry about that here is the correct one.


in no way does this suggest that hermaphrodite occurance will rise or that organic is better.

this is about water being contaminated and fish that live in the water being affected. read: lots of contamination lots of the time. this is much different than what is normal human exposure.

this isn't about organic vs non-organic food consumption. nothing to do with it. the contaminants weren't even listed as food contaminants.

this has as much to do with organic consumption as nuclear waste does.


"Our impression is that they are males that are being feminized [because] of the nature of the chemicals that are in the water, and most of them are estrogenic [meaning they stimulate development of female sex characteristics]," he said. "Some of [the estrogenic chemicals] are natural urinary estrogenic products from humans, and some of them are pharmaceuticals?birth control pills."

Did you read the article??? And as for the organic argument I do apologize . . . it actually had to do with a big radio story that was tied in with this article on NPR. Anyway, T-Nation has talked about the estrogenic effects of household cleaners and pesticides for years. You obviously don't pay much attention. It's a shame. You could maybe learn something. And if you don't think that humans are affected by the estrogen's surrounding us, think again. I am having trouble reproducing with my wife; I strongly believe because of my soy intake for years as a vegetarian. And soy is crammed into everything these days, yeah, I was an idiot.


I'll reproduce with your wife if you like.

p.s. is she hot?

p.p.s. just kidding

p.p.p.s seriously tho, is she hot?


Thats why China has such a small population.


China doesn't eat as much soy as we are often led to be believe and the Soy that they do it isn't highly processed soy.

It's like comparing a filet to isolated-cow-dingleberry-protein


Ha ha ha. They are running out of women, though.

But that's a whole different story.


A few empty statements with no proofs.

1) How did you came with the idea that Chinese does not consume a lot of soy?

2) They soy debate has been going on for ages and no one on both sides of the arguement has yet provided convincing proof to back up their statements.

3) Just to balance things out a bit, personally I believe as long as you are not consuming a ridiculous amount of soy, it should be fine.

Older studies point out soy to be inferior then caesin. However, recent studies shows exactly the opposite.

(1) Hormonal effects of soy in premenopausal women and men.

Kurzer MS.

Department of Food Science and Nutrition, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA. mkurzer@umn.edu

Over the past few years, there has been increasing interest in the possible hormonal effects of soy and soy isoflavone consumption in both women and men. Soy consumption has been suggested to exert potentially cancer-preventive effects in premenopausal women, such as increased menstrual cycle length and sex hormone-binding globulin levels and decreased estrogen levels. There has been some concern that consumption of phytoestrogens might exert adverse effects on men's fertility, such as lowered testosterone levels and semen quality.

The studies in women have provided modest support for beneficial effects. One cross-sectional study showed serum estrogens to be inversely associated with soy intake. Seven soy intervention studies controlled for phase of menstrual cycle. These studies provided 32-200 mg/d of isoflavones and generally showed decreased midcycle plasma gonadotropins and trends toward increased menstrual cycle length and decreased blood concentrations of estradiol, progesterone and sex hormone-binding globulin.

A few studies also showed decreased urinary estrogens and increased ratios of urinary 2-(OH) to 16alpha-(OH) and 2-(OH) to 4-(OH) estrogens. Soy and isoflavone consumption does not seem to affect the endometrium in premenopausal women, although there have been weak estrogenic effects reported in the breast. Thus, studies in women have mostly been consistent with beneficial effects, although the magnitude of the effects is quite small and of uncertain significance. Only three intervention studies reported hormonal effects of soy isoflavones in men.

These recent studies in men consuming soyfoods or supplements containing 40--70 mg/d of soy isoflavones showed few effects on plasma hormones or semen quality. These data do not support concerns about effects on reproductive hormones and semen quality.

(2) Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men.

Nagata C, Takatsuka N, Shimizu H, Hayashi H, Akamatsu T, Murase K.

Department of Public Health, Gifu University School of Medicine, Japan.

Soy consumption has been associated with a reduced risk of prostate cancer. The mechanism for this association may involve the effect of soy on the endocrine system. We conducted a randomized dietary intervention study to determine the effects of soy consumption on serum levels of steroid hormones in men. Thirty-five men were randomly assigned to either a soymilk-supplemented group or a control group.

The men in the soy-supplemented group were asked to consume 400 ml of soymilk daily for 8 weeks. The men in the control group maintained their usual diet. Blood samples were obtained just before the initiation of the dietary period and thereafter every two weeks for 12 weeks. Changes in hormone concentrations were analyzed and compared between the two groups using the mixed linear regression model against weeks from the start of the dietary period.

The mean (SD) soymilk intake estimated from dietary records during the dietary study period was 342.9 (SD, 74.2) ml in the soymilk-supplemented group. There was a significant difference between the two groups in terms of changes in serum estrone concentrations, which tended to decrease in the soy-supplemented group and increase in the control group over time. None of the other hormones measured (estradiol, total and free-testosterone, or sex hormone-binding globulin) showed any statistical difference between the two groups in terms of patterns of change. The results of the study indicate that soymilk consumption may modify circulating estrone concentrations in men.

Effect of different dietary protein composition on skeletal muscle atrophy by suspension hypokinesia/hypodynamia in rats.

Tada O, Yokogoshi H.

Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, Graduate School of Nutritional and Environmental Sciences, The University of Shizuoka, Japan.

Under microgravity conditions similar to those in space, it is known that various nutritional and physiological changes in the body are induced. Especially in the aspect of nutrition, muscle atrophy is a characteristic phenomenon accompanying weightlessness. This study was conducted to investigate the ameliorated effect of muscle atrophy caused by suspension hypokinesia by using the soy protein isolate (SPI) as the protein source in comparison with casein.

Male Wistar strain rats (8 wk old) were divided into two groups, each suspended with a suspension harness, and fed on a 20% SPI diet or a 20% casein diet for 10 d. The body weights of the suspended rats fed casein or SPI decreased similarly. The weight of the gastrocnemius and soleus muscle were decreased by suspension hypokinesia; however, the degree of the decrease of the muscle weights, especially soleus muscles, of rats fed the SPI diet was smaller than that of rats fed the casein diet. Serum Ntau-methylhistidine concentration was significantly lower in rats fed the SPI diet than in rats fed the casein diet.

Similarly, the activities of muscle protein-degrading enzymes such as calpain and proteasome were significantly lower in rats fed the SPI diet than in rats fed the casein diet. Cathepsin B+L activities were not affected by the SPI or the casein diet. Therefore it is suggested that SPI caused a reduction of the proteolysis of myofibrillar protein in skeletal muscles through a reduction of calpain and proteasome activities, in consequence to ameliorate the muscle atrophy.


Effect of protein source on resistive-training-induced changes in body composition and muscle size in older men.

Haub MD, Wells AM, Tarnopolsky MA, Campbell WW.

Department of Human Nutrition, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS 66506, USA. haub@humec.ksu.edu

BACKGROUND: Aging is associated with reductions in muscle mass and strength, but nutrition and exercise interventions can delay this progression and enhance the quality of life. OBJECTIVE: We examined whether the predominant source of protein consumed by older men influenced measures of muscle size and strength, body composition, resting energy expenditure, and skeletal muscle creatine concentrations in response to 12 wk of resistive training.

DESIGN: After consuming a lactoovovegetarian (LOV) diet for 2 wk, 21 men aged 65 +/- 5 y were randomly assigned to either consume a beef-containing (BC) diet (n = 10) or to continue the LOV diet (n = 11) throughout resistive training. The BC diet included 0.6 g protein. kg(-1). d(-1) from beef and the LOV diet included 0.6 g protein. kg(-1). d(-1) from textured vegetable protein (soy) sources. The remaining protein in the diets came from self-selected LOV sources.

RESULTS: The mean total protein intake for both groups ranged from 1.03 to 1.17 g. kg(-1). d(-1) during the intervention. Men in both groups had improvements (14-38%) in maximal dynamic strength of all the muscle groups trained with no significant difference between groups. With resistive training, cross-sectional muscle area of the vastus lateralis increased in both groups (4.2 +/- 3.0% and 6.0 +/- 2.6% for the LOV and BC groups, respectively) with no significant difference between groups.

Body composition, resting energy expenditure, and concentrations of muscle creatine, phosphocreatine, and total creatine did not differ significantly between groups or change over time. CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that increases in muscle strength and size were not influenced by the predominant source of protein consumed by older men with adequate total protein intake.


Another thing: if soy give you man-boobs, why didn't it work for asian men/women?


accuse me of not reading or paying attention while you do the same?

because you know, i said "this is about water being contaminated and fish that live in the water being affected. read: lots of contamination lots of the time. this is much different than what is normal human exposure."

how does the fishes' situation apply to birth control pill consumption or use of household products by humans? answer: it doesn't. dont think that a shitload of testing hasn't been done concerning human safety and regularly used products in the way they're used.

also, scientific literature about soy is very often different than supp company literature about soy, like fahd pointed out.