T Nation

Estrogenic Food Sources


In our quest to lean out to utterly absurd levels when prepping for a contest or just to get ready for a beach day we go to extreme practices.

Joel Marion has called attention to one of the most important details in this quest, and that is the role of leptin.

I currently am investigating the role of sex hormones in this matter, particularly as they apply to trouble “fat spots” we all are aware of.

An obvious culprit is estrogen, but a more detailed and systematic review is needed. It seems the ER B1 not alpha isoform is more expressed in subcutaneous abdominal fat than visceral…hence, the troubled lower abs, particulary if the receptor is resistant to sympathetic stimulation and the typical dieting strategies…In this regard we need to look at estrogenic foods and their tendency to active particular receptor sites, independent of caloric intake…
what foods are we aware of that inrease estrogenic compounds in the body.

I’ll start the list:

  1. Soy products.

Please continue to build.

Vain, a couple of questions, if lower abdominal fat is high in ER B1 receptors, would you need an agonist or antagonist of the B1 receptors to stimulate fat mobilization, and what herb, supplement or substance might do that? I’m betting/guessing that you’d need an agonist.

And since you’re talking sympathetic nervous system (responsible for fight or flight), I guess you’re talking ECA stack, right? If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying that ECA stacks are ineffective at mobilizing lower abdominal fat cells, since they’re high in ER B1 receptors. Correct me if I’m confused.

Interesting stuff.

My research thus far has lead to no definitive answers b/c the role of sex hormones in determining fat metabolic activity has seen scant research…however, what I can tell you thus far is that saw palmetto may yet to prove an important weapon here. It does antagonize the alpha receptors predominant in this region and I think its role with the B isoforms has yet to be seen…the key is dosage time and with what combination.

I currently utilize Yohimbe and Saw Palmetto mid morning when waking up to use the bathroom about four two to three hours before I wake to do my morning cardio…
In regards to the agonist/antagonist issue…IF estrogenic compounds bind to ER B sites in subcutaneous abdominal tissue that means that such binding (agoism) is what stimulates retention of the fat in that area (perhaps mediated by aromatase)…thus we would want a produce that binds to the site before the estrogenic compound does, thus “shutting down” the fat maintaining reaction…saw p. does this with the alpha receptors in this reason…and has shown some use with the beta isoforms.

I think the main player however might be diet…hence the question



Now… This is new for me…
In regard to autocrine or paracrine leptin effects and leptin’s receptor expression I am just learning…
I understand that it originates from connective tissue, which is one of the most important sources for cytokine synthesis and action, adipose tissue,
(and recent observations say nonadipose tissue and cells) including placenta, human gastric mucosa, hepatic stellate cells, mammary epithelial cells, pituitary, brain, and ske-letal, or skeletal (However u say it)…:0)~

I guess I am saying I understand that I need to take more time to understand Leptin in greater detail…

I have also heard (admitted here say) that in regards to some point in ones diet, one just becomes obsessed with food. When feeling ravenous this could indicate the fall of Leptin…
and one should gorge themselves? This is a prime indication that your body is fighting your diet very hard. That’s the time to reefed and spike calories/carbs either to maintenance for 2-3 days or far above maintenance for about one day.
Be it with “Mr. McDonald’s” balance of
0-3’s & 0-6’s with Carbs together or adhering to JB’s food combining rules I don’t take a stance…
(feed back welcome)
So thank you for bringing Leptin conversations to fruition, as I am sure there are others out here that will benefit from your discussions.
Saw Palmetto berries are also high in sterols, sterolins, & EFA’S On a side note… Would Pygeum work in the same way as S.P. on Leptin?

In response to the original post about foods, I know that PLASTIC has ZENO-ESTRAGENS in it that when Heated IN SAY A MICROWAVE causes these to be released in to your foods…
Hence Glass when heating your foods being a good idea.
Or how about bottles that contain your EFA’S Supplements. Oil will leech the compounds out of the plastic over time.
That’s why your Italian Mom’s Mom way back when put her Olive Oil in Glass…
Hope that helps…?
Oh ya…there has also been a link with such culprits as (pesticides) like organo-chlorines and surfactants. So wash produce off well or go organic if you?re not a starving student. There is weaker evidence that the same ZENO-ESTROGEN effect (be it from plastic or not) may be responsible for the world-wide drop in human sperm counts! Ouch!
:0( who new? Me-no-likey.

I know Wild Yam cream is used by women for natural hormone replacement, I am not sure how this would differ from Yam’s from your local Albertson’s? Just thought I would mention it.

At http://www.utpb.edu/scimath/schafersman/ecoestrogens/ there’s a good summary of everything. Check out section “4. WHERE ENVIRONMENTAL ESTROGENS ARE FOUND”

Remember, Google is your friend.

One thing that has been noticed in regards to low leptin levels is what is called “food seeking behavior”…this is the primitive, anti-starvation signal that usually results in us bingeing, bingeing out of control…and thats just it…what Joel speaks of in terms of spiking leptin almost needs to be that way…when you plan a “binge” it doesn’t have the same effect, becuase you are still tryign to control your body, not letting your body control you…the greater the difference between your diet levels (severe, semi-starvation) and your leptin refeed (binge, controlled, uncontrolled) I think the better the leptin response.

The greater the difference, the greater the actue leptin upregulation.


PS: there is some real good research on starvation studies out there…how many of you, when dieting severe for competition or otherwise will:
Drink more coffee and diet pop
Use more spices and mustard
Chew gum much much more
and THINK about food much more, savoring every little piece you eat.

Its primitive.

As far as Pygeum Africanum goes I belive it works the same way as Saw Palmetto Yes?
Is it better than Saw Palmetto?
I know it has been shown to inhibit the conversion of testosterone, and has anti-edema properties.
The prot?g?~

please note that an article on this topic titled “Eat like a T-Man” was published on T-mag a while back by mysekf (Doug Kalman) and covers much of what you asked.

I wasn’t able to find the link on that article, can you provide it? (I did find some of the eat like a T-man articles, but nothing on estrogenic foods).
Yes, you are correct in your assertion…however, the key that has yet to be proven is if these substances can indeed work their magic in vitro as opposed to in vivo…stinging needle works also…

R U 15???

15 Eva?..what!