T Nation

Estraidol (E2) at 58 pg/ml


#1

My Estraidol was tested at is at 58. Over the standard range. I’m on 2 Androgel packets a day (40.5 mt 1.6%). Initially I felt great. Now I feel most of the positives- energy, confidence, libido are waning. I got this test about two months ago; so it may have gone up since. Unfortunately, over that time I had major surgery and am still recovering so couldn’t get checked out. My doctor who I saw today, seemed unconcerned and thought it was not alarming (he didn’t even check again for Estraidol). However, he is fairly conservative. His recommendation was to increase the dose because my test levels are not great (350) but I know that with gel, the test levels don’t always synch with how you feel (unlike shots). I would like to get on an aromotase (sp?) inhibitor. I know many who are on TRT say that even 30 is high and affects the way you feel.

Opinions? How serious is it; and what do you recommend?


#2

First, you should get off androgel and switch to injectables. Second, that E2 is way too high. You’ll feel much better at lower levels. 22 seems to be the sweet spot, but some guys feel ok a little higher or lower. Just not that high.


#3

Thanks, that’s what I thought. Frustrating my doctor things it’s fine so long as it’s not “life threatening”. I’ll need to find another doctor.

(btw, on gel because of my surgery; after recovery period, may go back to injections)


#4

That’s why there’s such an hassle finding a doc to treat people with hypogonadism, it’s not life threatening enough a life long condition for them. I agree, you should switch to injections if you can. It’s not a pain as I thought it would be. Especially subq takes 2 mins to do and pain free. This is important as your numbers are a lot more stable and managing e2 is easier than with anything that makes your numbers fluctuate, as e2 is also then a moving target and AI dosing is a nightmare. Your e2 is very high, I am not the sort of person who’d say 22 is what you should be at but over 30 I think it’s too much. But it depends on the person, no need to fix if it ain’t broke but in you case it definitely is.


#5

I also don’t think 22 is written in stone, but I think everyone starting out should have a number to shoot for. Symptoms should rule the day. One guy may be floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee at 35 while other with that same number are feeling every effect of high estrogens.


#6

from what i’ve seen in reading, health risks occur below 20 and above 30, so i guess i’d go with 21-29…


#7

Good point. Very low E is not healthy either. I’d squeeze those numbers down to 22-25. Obviously this is tough, but the smaller the target you shoot for the more likely you’ll stay in an acceptable range.


#8

Anything between 20-28 seems good to shoot for. Focussing too much on these numbers will end up making one never feel good due to pre conceived notions about where T and E should be. I am sure all the non TRT guys have varying E2 and feel good.


#9

Please see these links found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a trt doc

Transdermal T delivery has the highest potential for T–>E2. High strength creams are better as less skin area is involved. T gels are the worse. Injections have least T–>E2 and are 100% delivery and least cost.

High E2 has cardiovascular risks and prostate risks. Also promotes fat gain, wrecks libido and can cause mood/depression issues.


#10

Absolutely agree that obsessing over the numbers is a bad idea. It’s just that we are going to such extreme measures to get our health back that we may as well do everything in our power to optimize the outcomes. I believe that once a person has a steady level of T and has arrived at a healthy weight with good LBM and is active with a healthy diet, E2 is pretty easy to dial in. Very minor changes in an AI can really fine tune the results. Of course this is partially wishful thinking…


#11

At the end of the day the amount of T available is the precursor to how much E will be converted. With TRT, T is external and T conversion to E is not happening in the testes now. The amount of bodyfat plays an important role to the conversion here, all of which can be controlled by AI so it’s easier. 2-4 point difference in either T or E won’t make as much difference i would think but what do i know? I am new to this.


#12

Lol. I’m a relative newbie also. I feel like I’ve got everything locked into place. I’d love to get to the point where I’m only having lab work done annualy as part of a physical. Probably won’t happen, but I can dream.


#13

I was gonna argue about the gel versus injections but can’t in this case. Both have good sides. I personally think you can control gel a lot easier than you can injections and IF the gel works good for you, i consider one lucky. Finding balance is tedious job you have to do only by “feel” and in time through personal experiments. Your E2 is high regardless and T levels are not so great and you use 2 packets a day. Not sure what your body stats are etc ( body fat % etc ) but increasing gel dosage is idiotic and your doctor is shit. There’s no nice way to say it bro. Your doctor should had simply stated, you need injections. Along with AI.


#14

Thanks all; this confirmed my suspicion about what I need to do. Talked to a new doctor day and hopefully will get this right.