Did not need that chit chat here either.
I was diagnosed with hypogonadism which is probably due to my testicle being removed cause of cancer, anyway I was told by a doctor to take Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) to lower my estrogen, but should I really be taking Anastrozole (Arimidex) cause my androgen levels were low, but my test levels were “normal”. The Nolvadex has made a difference, but is it dangerous to my Androgen Receptors?
Nolvadex is a SERM - Wikipedia which blocks estrogen in only some [selective] tissues and SERMs increase E2 levels. The tissues not protected then have increased estrogen problems. Anastrozole reduces E2 levels. You did not understand all that the doc said or doc is confused.
Nolvadex is also increasing your LH, FSH and T levels. That is what you feel. Nolvadex and SERMs in general are not considered candidates for life long therapy. There are side effects.
Read the advice for new guys sticky for starters. The protocol for injections sticky has a lot of basic info that you need. Sorry that it was hijacked.
You can take some anastrozole and nolvadex. [Note, do not take hCG and a SERM at the same time.]
You need E2 labs while on Nolvadex to know where you are. Please post your labs and ranges.
You can have other problems. Not everything is a result of low T levels and TRT may not be all that you need.
Your question did have some general value. Otherwise, do not inject your case details into any stickies or hijack other guy’s case posts.
I’m curious if anyone has considered whether one form of testosterone is more likely to aromatise to estradiol than other forms? Ie. Will testosterone enanthate potentially convert to estradiol more readily than testosterone cypionate?
Absolutely not. Testosterone esters are not testosterone and thus cannot aromatize at all. After the ester groups are removed, bio-identical testosterone is the result and that can aromatize to E2. For a given serum T level, it does not matter what ester was used to deliver the T. Less frequent injections promote more T–>E2 aromatization [result of higher peak T levels]. Note that 100mg of T eth delivers more T than 100mg of T cyp.
Convert is not a good word for this.
There are some anabolic steroids that will not aromatize, but those are not testosterone. There are some anabolic steroids that will aromatize to some degree that are not testosterone.
This link was provided by one of the forum members in a separate thread. Good (albeit simple for us) discussion on use of AI’s published by a medical center. More ammunition for your doc if needed:
I meant to post that with this link also, now it doesn’t speak that one is on TRT more so that it is well tolerated in males the AI here is Aromasin, something that may be of value when presenting facts to Your doctors. As can be seen this was studied by Endocrinologist, the morons that tell most of us that “Estrodiol” doesn’t need to be checked? Fricken 8 pound water heads
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/12/5951
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
This link was provided by one of the forum members in a separate thread. Good (albeit simple for us) discussion on use of AI’s published by a medical center. More ammunition for your doc if needed:
Another print off for You to take to your doctor
I would be interested in posts describing what too high e2 levels feel like and what too low levels feel like. I am working with doctor now to dial in adex level per week and it would be helpful to have here to work with.
thanks
This is in the stickies, also see the protocol for injections sticky.
So what happened with the arguments that taking nolvadex or something like arimidex actually hurt your gains on a cycle. I believe it was the late dan duchaine who made that comment about nolvadex. the estrogen and the puffiness that goes with the aromatizing of androgens are part of the strength gains that you see especially while taking something like testosterone or dbol etc.
^^^This is not the steroids forum. Discussions here should be part of a TRT context only.
With reference to KSman’s post of 01-08-2011, and the discussion on my case thread between myself and VTBalla34, here are a few items of interest to those of us with high LH and high E2.
Here is an older paper discussing LH/HcG causing increased aromatization of T in the testis, independent of increases in T. In other words, the aromatase enzyme activity is increased by the presence of LH/HcG.
http://www.pnas.org/content/76/9/4460.full.pdf
This is also mentioned in textbooks, such as (page 329 section C(1)): Manual of Endocrinology and Metabolism - Google Books
FSH can also cause us problems: http://www.biolreprod.org/content/18/1/55.full.pdf
As I look through my collection of papers and books, I’ll add some more references here.
Just a heads up…my Quest district has changed the reference range of their 4021x Estradiol test from 13-54 pg/mL to 0-39 pg/mL.
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/testmenu/jsp/showTestMenu.jsp?fn=3062.html&labCode=AMD
This may or may not be a nation wide thing and we are the first to adopt it. I can’t find any info on it other than that.
I like the new ranges though! Hopefully will make it a little easier for men on TRT to sort out their E2 issues since they will be “above range” much more easily now.
My doctor gave me 1mg of Anastrozole (Arimidex) to take once weekly. I asked him about taking 1/2 on Monday and 1/2 on Thursday. He said met of his patients on TRT do well with only 1 mg a week.
I took my first dose today. I do feel better already. Now maybe this is in my mind, but I feel more calm (I have anxiety issues) and I feel a little bump in libido. Also my face doesn’t feel so hot and sunburned. I have a red face usually.
Is this too soon to notice a difference?
My E2 was 95
How does the medication last for a week? I don’t believe its times release
You definitely need to dose arimidex multiple times per week. Half life is between 48-72 hours, so 3x/week is optimal or 2x/week minimum.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
You definitely need to dose arimidex multiple times per week. Half life is between 48-72 hours, so 3x/week is optimal or 2x/week minimum.[/quote]
Thanks, as always for the guidance.
I have another quick question on Arimidex, however:
Is it possible, even if unlikely, that I wouldn’t need to use any Arimidex at all? I have been dosing 200mg Test Cyp per week in two doses and have noticed the effects of low E if I take .25mg of Arimidex EOD.
As I have just begun on this track after a failed course of Testim and Axiron, I haven’t gotten my blood test results just yet (next month), to find out where my numbers are with E2, etc.
Thoughts?
At 200 mg/week, you almost certainly need an AI…do not post it here (open up your own case thread for specific cases) but you need to have your E2 tested as part of your regular bloodwork.
Myself and a few others I recall have issues with Arimidex and start to get the bad symptoms of low E2 from it, especially sexual dysfunction. The problem is not as pronounced with Aromasin, so that is an option. I have no experience with Letrozole, but that could be an option as well.
I read somewhere that ADEX can cause a fatty liver. I realize this was more then likely referencing women who were were probably taking higher doses then us.
But I already have a fatty liver.
Has anyone had liver issues on Adex?
NEED SOLID RESEARCH STUDIES?
I have been on HRT for over a year, using an Anti-aging clinic. Everthing was going great, just $$$. Now I have good insurance and my PMD suggested that I be followed by a Uro. for my HRT. The Urologist is fine with the my Test and current dosage. However, he wants to take me off
HCG and Anastrozole. His theory is, if your “T” is good then your E2 will not be an issue. “Only JUICERS need an AI”. “If you don’t want to have more kids or are not planning to stop TRT then you don’t need HCG.”
I could not eliquently explain all the micro/pathophis to convince him other wise.
I would like some good research that would help validate my case.
Thanks