Estradiol: Why You Should Care

You can try some TIME RELEASE melatonin with the trazodone.

Ask for a trial on deprenyl. It is a selective MAO-M inhibitor that has none of the classic MAO risks with doses up to 10mg/day. Suggest that you take 1/2 of the 5mg contents of a capsule every other day. You can take 5mg for the first dose. It is quite inexpensive.

PM me and tell me about your other dopergenics.

It will be interesting to see how you feel on 0.5mg anastrozole per week [in divided EOD doses].

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can try some TIME RELEASE melatonin with the trazodone.

Ask for a trial on deprenyl. It is a selective MAO-M inhibitor that has none of the classic MAO risks with doses up to 10mg/day. Suggest that you take 1/2 of the 5mg contents of a capsule every other day. You can take 5mg for the first dose. It is quite inexpensive.

PM me and tell me about your other dopergenics.

It will be interesting to see how you feel on 0.5mg anastrozole per week [in divided EOD doses].

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. I should mention that Im natural and have never taken any AAS. Cant wait to see my test levels tomorrow.

Ive taken Selegiline before at doses low enough to retain its MAO-B selectivity. I dont recall any major effects other than insomnia (everything gives me insomnia.) I might try it again if for no other reason than for its potential anti-aging function.

The only dopamine agonist Ive ever taken was Cabergoline and the sides were a bit much. It made my brain fog a little worse and I didn’t notice much of a libido change. Refractory period was unaffected. But the withdrawal was so freaking bad. I’m a very mellow person and i was mean as hell coming off of it. It make sense though, chronic activation of the various dopamine receptors inducing significant down regulation and desensitization and when you withdrawn a strong agonist suddenly you go from dopamine signaling overload to nil until those receptors desensitize.

I should also mention that my loads have always been pretty weak and Ive had moderate testicular atrophy for a while now. Id say slightly below average on both counts. Should I get more blood work to look into this? LH, FSH?

I will try the timed release melatonin. IR melatonin wakes me up 3-4 hours post dose completely awake and hard to return to sleep. The TR stuff may be worth a try. Also, im going to try doing runs of trazodone and remeron to see which gives better quality sleep.

I ordered the anastrozole but it comes in a 1 mg per milliliter solution. Even assuming that the solubility in the medium is perfect, it’s going to be hard to dose 500 mcgs a week in divided doses. I have a measured dropper but still. but to clarify, are you saying 500 mcg per week dived up into EOD doses or 500 mcg EOD. I assume its the former and not the latter but i wanted to be sure. Thanks again.

Anastrozole: if 28 drops per ml, 4 drops EOD is 0.5mg/week.

Traz is really only suited for use as a sleep aid. If you do not wake up properly in the AM, dose may be too high.

Cabergoline/Dostinex, 0.5mg/week may be useful and could be a side effect free increase in dopamine. This makes sense from a functional point of view, but will be a reach for most docs.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Anastrozole: if 28 drops per ml, 4 drops EOD is 0.5mg/week.

Caber is really only suited for use as a sleep aid. If you do not wake up properly in the AM, dose may be too high.

Cabergoline/Dostinex, 0.5mg/week may be useful and could be a side effect free increase in dopamine. This makes sense from a functional point of view, but will be a reach for most docs.[/quote]

I’m sorry what do you mean by Caber? You mean cabergoline? I’ve never heard of it being used as a sleep aid. Given its long half life i’m suprised its a suitable sleep aid.

I have some recent labs that are confusing me…no surprise there. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

3/30
Total Estradiol = 25 … range of 20 - 47 PG/ML
Estradiol (E2) Level = 9.7 … range of 0.8 - 3.5 NG/DL
Free Estradiol = 0.38 … range of 0.2 - 1.5 PG/ML
% Free Estradiol = 3.9 …range of 1.7 - 5.4%

I am really confused about the 1st 2. What is the difference between total and level? Any input or advice?

Okay Test levels are in!

Testosterone, total 499 (RR 250-1100 ng/dl)
Testosterone, free 110.3 (RR 35.0-155.0 pg/ml)
Testosterone, Free % 2.21 (HIGH) (RR 1.50-2.20%)

How are these for a 32 y.o. male after prolonged dieting? I wonder why my bound testosterone is so low?

Okay wow, yeah these are too low. I’ve been cutting calories way too low (very low fat) and doing too much cardio. Starting today I’m upping my cholesterol and fat intake and raising my total calories to 500 above maintenance. Stating the AI at doses previously talked about. When do you guys think I should get checked again with a full hormonal work-up? No wonder my libido is in the tank.
From what i’ve read, both my free and total test levels (and my estrdiol) while sill in range, are all at levels that can be symptomatic. Indeed, I have mild testicular atrophy, low libido, weak orgasm with weak ejaculate. I can’t tell you the last time i’v ehad morning wood. all of these issues have been chronic but have gotten worse since i’ve dieted down to single digit bf percentage. I’m making an appointment with an endocrinologist which means i may want to hold off from the AI… i dunno… Maybe the low dose AI will lower my E2 and raise my test levels to the high reference ranges though. Tough call.

[quote]CJD8791 wrote:

I’m sorry what do you mean by Caber? You mean cabergoline? I’ve never heard of it being used as a sleep aid. Given its long half life i’m suprised its a suitable sleep aid.[/quote]

I got that wrong and edited to fix.

[quote]CJD8791 wrote:
Okay wow, yeah these are too low. I’ve been cutting calories way too low (very low fat) and doing too much cardio. Starting today I’m upping my cholesterol and fat intake and raising my total calories to 500 above maintenance. [/quote]

Very low fat diets wreak havoc with your hormones, you know. It’s not worth cutting so low unless you have a show, or are trying to make your weight class for a meet. The damage it does doesn’t seem worth it, otherwise.

KSman seems to be onto something, turns out my Vitamin D is at the bottom end of the range.

Vitamin D-25 34 [ 32 - 100 ]

High E2, higher than before, need to take more Anastozole and I am clearly not an over-responder.

E2 49.6 [ 7.6 - 42.6 ] HIGH
DHEA 51.0 [ 44.3 - 331.0 ]
Prolactin 16.4 [ 4.0 - 15.2 ] HIGH
SHBG 24.6 [ 14.5 - 48.4 ]

Free-T to follow
DHT to follow

Well if my SHGB is not causing the low Free-T ( to follow ) then it must be converting to E2 and DHT.

Anybody know what could cause the high Prolactin levels ?

HG: You need to take 50mg/day DHEA.

You need to build D3 stores. Get the oil based caps and take 20,000iu/day for two weeks then go with 5-6,000 per day maintenance. Given the cost of D3 labs, all should get on high dose first and then test later to make dose changes.

You can calculate the new adex dose, but need to know the old dose. This works best when T levels and E levels are not jumping around, hence the need for frequent injections.

Any gyno to go with that high E2 and prolactin? Probe your chest. How big are the grains?

Feeling depressed, or not feeling much at all can be expected from either one of those levels.

Do not know the source of the prolactin other than adinomas, which this might not be. You should get cabergoline/dostinex and take 0.5mg/week in divided doses.

Lowering E2 and prolactin will work wonders for your head space and libido. Take action!

[quote]KSman wrote:
HG: You need to take 50mg/day DHEA.

You need to build D3 stores. Get the oil based caps and take 20,000iu/day for two weeks then go with 5-6,000 per day maintenance. Given the cost of D3 labs, all should get on high dose first and then test later to make dose changes.

You can calculate the new adex dose, but need to know the old dose. This works best when T levels and E levels are not jumping around, hence the need for frequent injections.

Any gyno to go with that high E2 and prolactin? Probe your chest. How big are the grains?

Feeling depressed, or not feeling much at all can be expected from either one of those levels.

Do not know the source of the prolactin other than adinomas, which this might not be. You should get cabergoline/dostinex and take 0.5mg/week in divided doses.

Lowering E2 and prolactin will work wonders for your head space and libido. Take action![/quote]

Resumed 50 DHEA immediately as labs rolled off my fax.

D3 is very interesting because it is connected to UC, rats induced with UC and no D3 died at 7 weeks others supplemented with D3 survived and improved. UC flares will worsen as D3 absorption worsens so at minimum I should be injecting when a flares starts as I probably wont absorb any orally.

I calmed down the doses and even moved down to 200mg per week in 100gm doses with .25mg Anastrozole ED. Boy a little .5 CC to get 100mg is not much and makes you wonder if its time to skip IM and go Sub-Q.

I guess a little deca I swapped in due to hair scare upped my prolactin, would have thought it would be gone by now.

I was just reading about the gyno scare, nothing here - lean boobies, normal tips.

I ordered cabergoline but it never showed, they claimed complaints, supplier switch and end of month.

.5mg Anastrozole yesterday and today, going to stay on that for a while, it is prescription compounded so I guess it really is Anastrozole but you have to wonder.

Is there any sense in a short term blast of Anastrozole ? 1mg per day for a week ?

Thanks

Short term anastrozole 1mg/day for a week would make you feel like crap. It might be fun to feel chemical menopause.

UC: Are you injecting B-12? Your ability to absorb may be messed up.

Any low iron or ferritin issues from intestinal blood loss? That can reduce ability to convert T4–>T3.

UC and vit-D3 absorption is an issue with dietary vit-D. Normally there is little or none in natural foods. Vit-D3 from sun exposure probably does not have a UC component. However, I have long believed that the low vit-D25 levels in those with chronic health problems is from the disease reducing ones ability to get outdoors into the sun light. So the disease may be leading to the low vit-D25 levels, not the other way around.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Short term anastrozole 1mg/day for a week would make you feel like crap. It might be fun to feel chemical menopause.

UC: Are you injecting B-12? Your ability to absorb may be messed up.

Any low iron or ferritin issues from intestinal blood loss? That can reduce ability to convert T4–>T3.

UC and vit-D3 absorption is an issue with dietary vit-D. Normally there is little or none in natural foods. Vit-D3 from sun exposure probably does not have a UC component. However, I have long believed that the low vit-D25 levels in those with chronic health problems is from the disease reducing ones ability to get outdoors into the sun light. So the disease may be leading to the low vit-D25 levels, not the other way around.

[/quote]

OK keeping it at .5mg per day until next months labs.

UC reigns king in all northern countries where people get less light, I believe it is an absorption issue which when low greatly exacerbates a UC flare. So disease leads to low absorption which then leads to amplified disease flareup. My flares have coincided with the hottest summer months twice - August when I probably avoid the sun altogether do to extreme heat. Neighbor with UC regularily sun bathes for the D3.

B-12 injections - yes I have them but I never ‘feel’ any better so not really sure if I have an issue there, although I am told my grandfather would get them from his doctor.

A bit surprised the D-3 injectable link thinks they need to be intramuscular.

Sounds like I get the D-3 transport but still have to absorb the D itself as it is not in the injected compound: “It has been found that the Vitamin D-3 has a much higher affinity for Vitamin D binding protein which carries the vitamin in the blood stream. This means that D-3 is a much more bioactive option and can be taken in lower doses to get the same results.” No…D-3 is the actual Vitamin. The binding protein is the transport. http://www.trimnutrition.com/product_info.php?products_id=32
Thanks

Never looked at the D-3 binding protien. But that detail exists for all and for all states of health or morbidity.

Are you talking D-3 as an oil based product.

The notion that D-3 might need to be injected may flow from the practice of injecting T into muscle. Both are steroid based molecules. Meanwhile, it is not know that SC T injections work as well as IM. Many medical “truths” are really facts of practice and not really facts at all.

My mom had UC and lost all of her lower intestine and part of the upper intestine. I have come to understand that her health problems and death were probably greatly a result of mal-nutrition.

You should try taking l-carnitine to improve you gut function.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Never looked at the D-3 binding protien. But that detail exists for all and for all states of health or morbidity.

Are you talking D-3 as an oil based product.

The notion that D-3 might need to be injected may flow from the practice of injecting T into muscle. Both are steroid based molecules. Meanwhile, it is not know that SC T injections work as well as IM. Many medical “truths” are really facts of practice and not really facts at all.

My mom had UC and lost all of her lower intestine and part of the upper intestine. I have come to understand that her health problems and death were probably greatly a result of mal-nutrition.

You should try taking l-carnitine to improve you gut function.[/quote]

Glad I have KSMan in my corner.

Thanks for taking the time to think about my issues.

Yes l-carnitine in 2 forms and saw research related to UC but so far not a wonder drug 4 me.

I immediately got an oil based D3 after what you said intersected with what I read.

I also have another D-3 that is a drop and one must assume it is for sub-lingual.

Still need to order the IM injections product.

So you KSMan are not using Sub-Q yourself ? I thought you were and that your entire approach was not weights but perfect TRT gave you all you needed in fat loss, muscle volume and head perfection. I am very curious about that. Thanks for divulging personal details if you choose to do so.

I am sorry to hear about your mother, mine was just here to see her granddaughter but suffers from a list of other problems herself.

Andrew Weil says that he embraces the end as just another phase of life, that in fact the philosophers argue a limitless immortal life sucking on nectar while reclining in fields of grass is no life at all.

The fact that the meter is running and our time is running out - Gives ‘Meaning’ to our lives.

I agree. I also agree that running ‘me’ optimally is imperative and as simple as following your protocol. Much to do and do quickly !

Best Life Now !

TRT reduced my waist 34–>31" with no weight loss. Tried lifting but that was not sustainable for me. I am stronger now again, all without training. My body has shifted to what it was like in my late 20’s. So that is a natural set point for me. Others will land on their own set points.

Last fall I was 20 feet high in a tree with a chain saw. Swinging a long heavy extension ladder over my head. I had a lot of vitality that day. Maybe I can get some of that back with the warmer weather.

I had tried SQ for T and hCG on my belly but I got hard lumps that hurt. Later tried SQ on the tops of my legs. No lumps or pain. I have not done IM for a long time.

That sounds really good. I remember building a large 2nd story deck on this home and the old marital property, running a skill saw way up there, fabricating beams and setting them myself. One 6x6 post did fall over and hit me in the head when I turned my back on it - otherwise it was injury free and never feel once.

I do the HCG in belly fat, have not tried anything but IM for the T.

One lab still remains the dreaded DHT which will be SKY HIGH and just came beck from GP Dr. who was unsympathetic and would not give me one month of Finsteride in order to ‘rinse’ it out. Nice use of 2 hours work and co-pay totalling 160 bucks.

Free Testosterone(Direct) 44.1 HIGH pg/mL 6.8-21.5 02

Is this a good free value ? According to their range it is good but the two Free measurements confuse me because both appear to be the same pg/mL.

OK the final lab is in for DHT and I am flabbergasted that it is in the range, I am pretty sure my hair was falling out, I think I put the brakes on it, but it happened when my back and shoulders erupted in acne so its obviously DHT from overdosing.

Is there a DHT threshold that generally denotes hairloss ?

Dihydrotestosterone 62 ng/dL 01
Reference Range: Adult Male: 30 - 85

You need to use the non-age adjusted range for FT to get the youthful range.