T Nation

Ester Change After Several Years: Undecanoate to Enanthate

ok guys, changed my protocol two months ago. After several years of 250mg every two weeks of test undecanoate with good results I hade to make a switch.

Due to the unavailability of UG undecanoate I have bought the more common enanthate vials (living in Belgium …). Did some bloodwork last week

Total T: 22,4 nmol/l (8-29)
free T: 0,325 nmol/l (0,198-0,619)
oestradiol : 26
SHBG :60 (18-54)

TSH: 3,8mU/L
FT4: 14,1

Amylase: 152u/l (28-100)
Lipase 78 (13-60)

Sars Cov 2 Al roche : negatif
Hematocrit: 42,7

IgE: 189 (<100)

Vit B12 :864ng/l
Foliumzuur: 3,6 (>3,9)

So, protocol of injections remained the same: every two weeks 1ml or 250mg.
This bloodwork was 12 days after the last one and two days prior to my next injection.

I know, here in the States, it’s more common to do much more injections to keep the values more steady. I don’t experience much side-effects with this every other week schedule, but still, i want to change the injectionrate to EOD 3,5d 0,25ml or 62,5mg.

My question: can i use an insulin syringe for IM delts injections? Still want injections to be IM. Now I use 21G 1,5inch for my bottoms :wink: and that’s no problem every other week. But with 4 injections in two weeks I want an insulin syringe and injections in the delts. So, wich size I have to use. I have insulin syringes of 29G with 0,5 inch, will that work? 81kg and not that much fat…

To compare with bloodwork done in january, using the previous esther, 10 days after injection

T: 31,38
Free T: 0,41
SHBG 74,6
Oestradiol <25
Amylase 167
Lipase 116
TSH: 2,05

Other remarks are also welcome.

Yeah, the insulin pins should work fine for the delts, though it will be kinda slow to pull the oil into syringe compared to what your used to.

For sure it didnt work for me and it was not IM injection I was doing. But Im not lean, but not too fat either. Around 25percent body fat

If you are lean enough it will work.

Just I hate that everybody on the forums claims it works for everyone

I’ll make sure to tell everyone it works for everyone except vonko from now on :wink:

And you also told people over and over and over that daily subQ was the way to go before you had your own experience with it not working as well

There aren’t many absolutes in the TRT world imo.

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I know personally at least three other people for which 1/2 inch IM didnt work

And I bet a good portion of the people doing it think they do IM but they dont

Im not saying anything absolute. In fact just the opposite, im opposing the idea this works for everyone

so your point is that many users think they inject IM with an 0,5inch but in reality they hit SQ?

Correct?

But the test will still hit the system?

Yes.
Bur sub q shows a lot of variability in absorption for different people.

For some works well, for others work terrible. Many people report feeling worse on sub q even with good levels because I guess all the process there gets different

IM as much as Im aware(real IM) works well for everyone in terms of absorption and so on

I’m a pretty big guy and I used 5/8 pins for about a year. I probably missed muscle a few times and never noticed a difference. I shot in delts and thigh.

Source?

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Are you joking :smiley:

Nope. Do you have a study or other research showing that absorption varies between individuals for SubQ administration? Or was that not the claim you’re making?

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First read the forum. A lot of people complain from sub q.
Second It happened with me and I have enough blood work o prove it.

I dont have a study and I dont need any.

In addition it is well known fact in medicine oil solution travels well in muscle tissue, not in fat and that is why it is recommended to be injected there

None of what you’ve just said presents any evidence to substantiate the claim that absorption has a large degree of variability between individuals in SubQ administration.

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It is more than enough evidence. There are no studies for everything in this world and many of the studies have too many limitations anyway

Also people fall too much for these modern injection methods like sub q and shallow IM, my myself guilty of that and also people tend to neglect the importance of how and where you put the oil in your body. They think that if you put it just somewhere it will work. And yes it is true for SOME. But NOT for EVERYBODY.

In my experience the significance of this details can be so great that it can neglect all other parts of the protocol.

i will give it a try for about 8 weeks and will do a bloodtest in week 9.
Then i’ll decide to keep the new protocol or adjust it. Also i will monitor any side-effects during that period.

Any other thoughts about my current bloodwork?

With that shbg especially the total t seems very low in my mind

Not that we should compare our values and everyone is different, but with shbg of 30 I chase total t of 40-50nmol/l

4 weeks ago i changed protocol. New protocol still test enanthate, but 2 times a week SQ 62,5mg
Saturday evening 8PM and wednesday morning 8 am.
I a few weeks i will make an appointment with my doctor to do a new lab.
So far 8 injections and 5 of them with some bad spot feeling afterwards

Yes you can, I use this exact size every day.

ok guys, did some new labs and here are the results of the new protocol of 2 times /week 0,25cc (62,5 test enanthate). So , instead of once 1 cc (250mg test enant every two weeks). Total amount is the same

shots put wednesday (morning) and saturday (evening), blood being pulled friday morning

total T: 52 nmol/l (8,6-29)
free T: 0,952 nmol/l (0,198-0,619)
SHBG: 60
oestradiol: 40

TSH 3,2
vit D: 23,6 (despite running outside every day of the year)
lipase: 85 (13-60)

cholesterol :176 (59 vs 117)
igE : 154

vitB12:737
foliumzuur: <2… (>3,9)

hematocrit: 43,5

so, T values much better, despite the use of the same amount over two weeks.
I use slin syringue and started in the abs, but changed to the delts.

A bit strange , so much better T values because SHBG remained exactly the same and pretty high.

New protocol stays!
the overal feeling didn’t change much

any thoughts??