T Nation

Escalation in Israel

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

No, that’s why I never capitalize “asian,” because my uncle was killed in vietnam (also not capitalized).

More importantly, if one is describing the murder of a kid, and, in an attempt at belittlement, one intentionally refuses to capitalize a proper-noun descriptor of the victim’s ethnicity while at the same time capitalizing other proper nouns correctly, one is a legitimate target of criticism.

Moron.

[I say this while agreeing with the pro-Israel position in this thread.]

Edited to temper undue harshness[/quote]

You believe there is a moral equivalency between blowing up civilians on a bus and killing an enemy soldier on a battlefield? Really?
[/quote]

Killing is killing. Who are you to decide the morality behind it? You aren’t God. That’s His call, not yours.

Here’s a different analogy:

“I never capitalize jew, because jews killed my sixteen-year-old son.”

Get it?

Jewbacca is as responsible for that kid’s death as the kid was responsible for what’s been done to the Israelis. The lower-case passive-aggressiveness is nothing more than childish trifling, but it certainly gets at a much more important kind of fallacious and detrimental worldview.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And it wasn’t ALL Arabs or Muslims who did this, but he’s lumped them all into the same category. [/quote]
Complains that a poster makes a generalized statement…

[quote]
That is the mindset in Israel. Moron.[/quote]
Then make a statement about an entire nation.

Smh.

Come on PWI…

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And it wasn’t ALL Arabs or Muslims who did this, but he’s lumped them all into the same category. [/quote]
Complains that a poster makes a generalized statement…

Did I say all Israelis have that mindset? No. Does that mindset exist in Israel? Yes. Come on PWI…

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And it wasn’t ALL Arabs or Muslims who did this, but he’s lumped them all into the same category. [/quote]
Complains that a poster makes a generalized statement…

Did I say all Israelis have that mindset? No. Does that mindset exist in Israel? Yes. Come on PWI…[/quote]

You did not say “the mindset exists in Israel.”

You said:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
That is the mindset in Israel. Moron.[/quote]

That IS the mindset.

lol at “I didn’t say that.” Intellectual honest PWI style. Hilarious.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And it wasn’t ALL Arabs or Muslims who did this, but he’s lumped them all into the same category. [/quote]
Complains that a poster makes a generalized statement…

Did I say all Israelis have that mindset? No. Does that mindset exist in Israel? Yes. Come on PWI…[/quote]

You did not say “the mindset exists in Israel.”

You said:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
That is the mindset in Israel. Moron.[/quote]

That IS the mindset.

lol at “I didn’t say that.” Intellectual honest PWI style. Hilarious.
[/quote]

Okay, fine. I overstepped things a bit. Now where’s Jewbacca to admit the same? Do you not agree that it is very revealing of Jewbacca’s mindset when he does not capitalize Arabs and Muslims? Do you not agree that he has essentially lumped all Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims into the same category?

This is ridiculous. Do you not see the blatant hypocrisy in Jewbacca’s post? It’s beyond disingenuous sympathy that he is referring to and obviously his view of ALL Arabs and Muslims is tainted. I don’t blame him. I know that he has had friends and family who have been killed by Arabs. But don’t sit there and tell me all that bullshit about Jews bringing flowers and how Jews want a solution and the Palestinians don’t when you can’t even capitalize a proper noun referring to them. If his attitude is indicative of the general attitude in Israel, I don’t blame Palestinians for refusing a Palestinian state under Israeli terms. Clearly, they are considered second-class citizens there. What sort of democracy are we really propping up over there?

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Your refusal to address the undisputed facts in my post, instead quibbling about proper capitalization on an internet message board, tells everyone here you have nothing to support your stance and only seek to distract from the fact that you have no response.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

Fair enough.

This was why I italicized “if.”

Though I am confident your manual tells you to capitalize Muslim.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

I love it. You claim that English is hard enough for you already, and yet, you are more familiar with the Chicago Style than 99.99% of English speakers.

Explain your refusal to capitalize Muslims.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t blame Israelis for their reaction. I don’t live there, never been, don’t plan on going anytime soon. So I can’t pretend to grasp their mindset. At the same time, why do we unequivocally back Israel? Sure, you’ll hear the occasional condemnation from politicians, but when push comes to shove, we’re still in their corner rather than sitting ringside as a passive spectator. What do we really stand to gain by supporting them, or anyone else in that region?

If we operate under the premise that extremist Jewish settlers like the ones responsible for this Palestinian boy’s death are no better than the Hamas supporters who are most likely responsible for the earlier kidnappings, shouldn’t we demand an immediate and unambiguous rejection of Jewish settlements the same way that we demand Arab governments condemn Hamas and Arab extremism? Shouldn’t we be threatening to withdraw aid to Israel the same way we removed it from Egypt?[/quote]
You’re much too old to be acting deliberately obtuse. How much have you heard on radical Judaism? Palestine is lousy with a crazy fucking religion. Palestine is way more dangerous to us than Israel. No sense in engaging politically correct bullshit just for the hell of it. You don’t hear about other religions going totally nuts the same way you do with radical Islam. Doesn’t matter how many reasonable ones there are, there’s enough unreasonable ones that for hundreds of years they’ve been making a problem of themselves. You back the side least likely to blow you the fuck up. It’s obvious and you understand it just as well as anyone so don’t pretend you can’t.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

Your interpretation of the Chicago Style requirements regarding capitalization is inaccurate anyways. Of course, I suspect you already knew this and are simply trying to backtrack, hence your refusal to capitalize Muslim. Arab is a term that originally refers to the majority population on the Arabian Peninsula. It’s etymological roots are in a geographical location. Highlanders would be capitalized if the term originally referred to people from Highland, even if the term has since become more generic than that.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

Fair enough.

This was why I italicized “if.”

Though I am confident your manual tells you to capitalize Muslim.[/quote]

It also tells me to spell “the” “t” “h” “e” and not “teh” among the other mistakes I routinely make.

Shall we parse every post for grammar and spelling?

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Your refusal to address the undisputed facts in my post, instead quibbling about proper capitalization on an internet message board, tells everyone here you have nothing to support your stance and only seek to distract from the fact that you have no response.[/quote]

Now you’re just trying to backtrack. I don’t disagree with your facts so there is nothing for me to address there. You’re just trying to play Sophist now rather than address the undisputed fact that you passively-aggressively denigrate all Muslims when you refuse to capitalize the term.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t blame Israelis for their reaction. I don’t live there, never been, don’t plan on going anytime soon. So I can’t pretend to grasp their mindset. At the same time, why do we unequivocally back Israel? Sure, you’ll hear the occasional condemnation from politicians, but when push comes to shove, we’re still in their corner rather than sitting ringside as a passive spectator. What do we really stand to gain by supporting them, or anyone else in that region?

If we operate under the premise that extremist Jewish settlers like the ones responsible for this Palestinian boy’s death are no better than the Hamas supporters who are most likely responsible for the earlier kidnappings, shouldn’t we demand an immediate and unambiguous rejection of Jewish settlements the same way that we demand Arab governments condemn Hamas and Arab extremism? Shouldn’t we be threatening to withdraw aid to Israel the same way we removed it from Egypt?[/quote]
You’re much too old to be acting deliberately obtuse. How much have you heard on radical Judaism? Palestine is lousy with a crazy fucking religion. Palestine is way more dangerous to us than Israel. No sense in engaging politically correct bullshit just for the hell of it. You don’t hear about other religions going totally nuts the same way you do with radical Islam. Doesn’t matter how many reasonable ones there are, there’s enough unreasonable ones that for hundreds of years they’ve been making a problem of themselves. You back the side least likely to blow you the fuck up. It’s obvious and you understand it just as well as anyone so don’t pretend you can’t.[/quote]

The same thing could have held true about Christians at some point.

Back the side that’s least likely to blow you the fuck up? I thought we backed up democracies. Is that all it takes for us to have someone’s back? Hey, you most likely won’t blow me up (never mind the fact that backing you makes me more likely to get blown the fuck up by someone else) so I’ll support you No. Matter. What.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

Fair enough.

This was why I italicized “if.”

Though I am confident your manual tells you to capitalize Muslim.[/quote]

It also tells me to spell “the” “t” “h” “e” and not “teh” among the other mistakes I routinely make.

Shall we parse every post for grammar and spelling?
[/quote]

This isn’t about grammar and spelling and you know it.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t blame Israelis for their reaction. I don’t live there, never been, don’t plan on going anytime soon. So I can’t pretend to grasp their mindset. At the same time, why do we unequivocally back Israel? Sure, you’ll hear the occasional condemnation from politicians, but when push comes to shove, we’re still in their corner rather than sitting ringside as a passive spectator. What do we really stand to gain by supporting them, or anyone else in that region?

If we operate under the premise that extremist Jewish settlers like the ones responsible for this Palestinian boy’s death are no better than the Hamas supporters who are most likely responsible for the earlier kidnappings, shouldn’t we demand an immediate and unambiguous rejection of Jewish settlements the same way that we demand Arab governments condemn Hamas and Arab extremism? Shouldn’t we be threatening to withdraw aid to Israel the same way we removed it from Egypt?[/quote]
You’re much too old to be acting deliberately obtuse. How much have you heard on radical Judaism? Palestine is lousy with a crazy fucking religion. Palestine is way more dangerous to us than Israel. No sense in engaging politically correct bullshit just for the hell of it. You don’t hear about other religions going totally nuts the same way you do with radical Islam. Doesn’t matter how many reasonable ones there are, there’s enough unreasonable ones that for hundreds of years they’ve been making a problem of themselves. You back the side least likely to blow you the fuck up. It’s obvious and you understand it just as well as anyone so don’t pretend you can’t.[/quote]

They share a 140 mile border with Egypt that looks a heck of a lot like the old Berlin wall, built because the Egyptians don’t want these fanatics running roughshod over their country, blowing things up, and supporting the ousted radical religious parties.

For some reason, these discussion always give the Egyptians a pass.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I’ll have one post on this.

First, contrast the kidnapping/murder of the 3 Yeshiva students (one of which is American) and the murder of the arab boy.

The arab officials celebrating the kidnapping, the muslim religious leaders celebrated the murders, the arab media celebrated teh kidnappings, the arab population celebrated the kidnappings, and they generally thought the murder of the 3 boys was great. They sheltered the killers. In short, it was not a "fringe’ part of the arabs. It was mainstream.

The murder of the arab boy, in contrast, was condemned for what it was — murder — by the Israeli government, religious leaders, media, and people. The Israeli police arrested the alleged murderers and they are sure to face justice.

The arabs don’t care, however.

In fact, one of the mothers of 3 Yeshiva boys tried to come by with flowers for the mother of the arab boy; she was turned away by rock throwers. The arab boy’s mother was on the BBC yesterday saying she “didn’t want flowers; she wanted dead Jews.”

So, yes, there is no moral equivalency here.

++++++++++

Regarding the lie that Israel does not want peace or a PA state. Well, a PA state has been offered hundreds of times. In fact, it started out that way — a PA state and a Jewish state.

The arabs flatly refused to permit a Jewish state to exist and continue to refuse today.

That is the sole serious issue; the rest could be handled by a couple of surveyors, some emails, a couple of real estate appraisals, and a little cash going both ways to private landowners. Texas and Oklahoma have more complicated land owning issues along the Red River.
[/quote]

Your refusal to capitalize Arabs or Muslims tells me all I need to know about your stance.[/quote]

Would you show respect to a group of people who murdered your family? Moron.
[/quote]

I’d like to say it was some great conspiracy or political statement, but my well-worn 30 year old edition of Chicago Manual of Style tells me in Rule 7.33-34 not to capitalize names of groups unless based on a certain geographic (e.g., continents), national, or religious terms.

Hence:

blacks, whites, caucasians, orientals, arabs, semites, highlanders, aborigines

but cf:

Africans, Europeans, English, Asians, Egyptians, Israelis, Scots, Kenyans.

In sum, unless one considers the “pan-national arab nation” to be a nation, “arab” should be no more capitalized than “highlander.”

A perusal of the internet shows this rule is changing to favor capitalization in everything but “whites” who apparently do not deserve the honor of capitalization.

English is hard enough for me already; I’ll stick with the original manual and disregard the PC language police.[/quote]

Your interpretation of the Chicago Style requirements regarding capitalization is inaccurate anyways. Of course, I suspect you already knew this and are simply trying to backtrack, hence your refusal to capitalize Muslim. Arab is a term that originally refers to the majority population on the Arabian Peninsula. It’s etymological roots are in a geographical location. Highlanders would be capitalized if the term originally referred to people from Highland, even if the term has since become more generic than that.[/quote]

I’m looking at lower-case “arab” and “highlander” right here on page 247.

I do agree there is not much logic to the rule, but then, it’s English where “lead” rhymes with “read” and “read” rhymes with “lead” but “read” does not rhyme with “lead” and “lead” does not rhyme with “read.”

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t disagree with your facts so there is nothing for me to address there.[/quote]
Sounds like you’re done then mate.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t blame Israelis for their reaction. I don’t live there, never been, don’t plan on going anytime soon. So I can’t pretend to grasp their mindset. At the same time, why do we unequivocally back Israel? Sure, you’ll hear the occasional condemnation from politicians, but when push comes to shove, we’re still in their corner rather than sitting ringside as a passive spectator. What do we really stand to gain by supporting them, or anyone else in that region?

If we operate under the premise that extremist Jewish settlers like the ones responsible for this Palestinian boy’s death are no better than the Hamas supporters who are most likely responsible for the earlier kidnappings, shouldn’t we demand an immediate and unambiguous rejection of Jewish settlements the same way that we demand Arab governments condemn Hamas and Arab extremism? Shouldn’t we be threatening to withdraw aid to Israel the same way we removed it from Egypt?[/quote]
You’re much too old to be acting deliberately obtuse. How much have you heard on radical Judaism? Palestine is lousy with a crazy fucking religion. Palestine is way more dangerous to us than Israel. No sense in engaging politically correct bullshit just for the hell of it. You don’t hear about other religions going totally nuts the same way you do with radical Islam. Doesn’t matter how many reasonable ones there are, there’s enough unreasonable ones that for hundreds of years they’ve been making a problem of themselves. You back the side least likely to blow you the fuck up. It’s obvious and you understand it just as well as anyone so don’t pretend you can’t.[/quote]

They share a 140 mile border with Egypt that looks a heck of a lot like the old Berlin wall, built because the Egyptians don’t want these fanatics running roughshod over their country, blowing things up, and supporting the ousted radical religious parties.

For some reason, these discussion always give the Egyptians a pass.[/quote]

We aren’t Egypt’s unequivocal ally in the region and we aren’t giving them $1.5 billion a year. Perhaps we’re coming down harder on Israel because we expect more from a democracy. When the latest round of NSA revelations comes out no one here starts saying “Don’t criticize us! Look at the even worse stuff that countries like China and Iran are up to! We get a free pass because we aren’t the worst example.”