I actually thought the conversation was fairly well directed.
I have always been amused by those 5'6", 215lb. guys who bench 335 for a 10" stroke who mock the 6'2" 185lb guy who benches 225 over an 18" stroke.
Technically, the taller guy is actually stronger, but has less leverage, and/does more work.... or am I missing something?
I thought the relative bodyweight issue was related to being an indicator for other sports performance, such as acceleration, etc.
I guess the guys who got cut from the football/ basketball / soccer / etc. team need something to brag about...
Unfortunately, even though guys like Charles Poliquin were huge contributors at the beginning, T-Mag has never had a discussion forum for guys who lift weights to enhance other sports performance, and instead have only provided a forum for those guys who didn't make it in those sports, so they simply decided to make lifting the weights themselves a sport.... huh.
Interesting....but not so much.
So since being a great linemen is about balance, footwork, mass, and strength, maybe we can set up a forum for angry Riverdancers who have the footwork and balance part, but no strength or mass. That way they can have a place to let out their frustrations.
We could make it equal opportunity forum for all angry, athletes who .
never developed all aspect of athleticism.
Then have a Light in the Loafers vs. Extremely Heavy in the Loafers showdown!!!
Sweet.... (or not).
I bet the heated discussions between the twinkle toed dancers and the behemoth strongmen would really help advance athletic training as a whole....
Now, that all being said, I can honestly say that I really admire guys who lift the big weights. Personally I have narrow shoulders that have dislocated half a dozen times between the two, and have subluxed too many to count.... I have never pressed more than 365lbs myself. As a wide receiver of 190lbs, that wasn't too bad, especially since I ran in the 4.4s electronically in the 40, and have great springs....
You see in order for Performance Training to advance beyond lifting weights, those pencil neck geeks may have to take part in the discussion from time to time. I know that most of us rely on what we have witnessed in person (I do for sure, and I think many of the contributors do also). But, no matter if we use Supertraining for a 1 Board press or for a resource, the simple fact is that the westside template was derived from a set of periodization principles conceived by geeks in the trenches.... not PE coaches, or dumb assed ex-linemen who consistently blocked the wrong guy on 236 Power (but suddenly are geniuses of training), or by theoretical wanna be's who sat around on balance balls... but, conjugate and concurrent training was analyzed by geeks in the trenches on human guinea pigs.... thank you Russia. Take a few guys with natural ability in the sciences and analysis, and throw them in the trenches.... thank you so much.
So, while this conversation wasn't exactly advanced, it definitely headed in the wrong direction over the last few posts.
I will say up front that I will never squat over 600, or bench over 405.... I may never even get to these goals. But, I also know that many of the guys who are so bad-ass for benching alot will never know the joy of dunking a basketball, making a tumbling run finishing with a handspring and then a tuck, or basically move agily without looking like a mentally handicapped baboon with a broomstick crammed up its arse.... you know who you are.
It is conversations by people who are willing to look a little deeper that will eventually help strength dominant athletes to overcome these deficits on sporting endeavors that require ballistic power absorption / production and reactivity...
But, there is much work to be done. The hardest part is to overcome the very poor state of athletic training that exists today. Do you have any idea how hard it is to sell the idea of: you can actually retrain poor agility mechanics, build dynamic and reactive strength in new ranges of motion in situations involving high force, and actually increase speed!!!
I just spent the day with a DI soccer coach today who I have been working with on and off for a while.... well I have to overcome his 25 years of truth... the truth that S&C basically failed to improve performance for his athletes..... tough sell.
The bruiser in the bike shorts with a can of skoal permanently transfixed to every back pocket would like to explain to you how if you could just squat 900 pounds, you would be a better soccer player.... uh-huh.
Need to get stronger? Definitely. Being given an athlete specific solution to maximize rates and amplitudes of power absorption and production?
Yeah right.... fat chance... no pun intended.
Oops, you have some Skoal on your 4th chin.
So we have to overcome that, and the angry guys who stand up and say that guys who don't bench alot are pencil necked geeks.... frankly, I agree with them, but....
I will probably not be here on T-Mag for a while, because it is obvious that even though relative power production is the key indicator for speed, and that relative body strength is the key indicator for acceleration... both being enhanced greatly by trained reactive qualities, the forum is still about sticking out our chests and saying: who can bench the most....?
Sorry guys, I will have to sit this one out, I have to go to practice....
You win.... good job.