[quote]E-man wrote:
If I were to choose between Test/Deca or Test/D-bol I personally would incorporate all three
[/quote]
Amen brother; the trifecta
A first cycle should be test-only IMO.
No EQ, no d-bol. Just test for 10-12 weeks.
I know everyone has there own opinion but personally Dbol’s are a waste of time. You barely keep any gains, bloat up like a water balloon, and its extremely toxic on the liver.
I personally have to decide with conceit on this, because my first cycle was of Test Prop, tren ace. and Eq and the gains were incredible. Very minimal bloating, the Eq made you hard and you just felt amazing in the gym. But hey best of luck with whatever you decide
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
bigdev121 wrote:
I know everyone has there own opinion but personally Dbol’s are a waste of time. You barely keep any gains, bloat up like a water balloon, and its extremely toxic on the liver.
I personally have to decide with conceit on this, because my first cycle was of Test Prop, tren ace. and Eq and the gains were incredible. Very minimal bloating, the Eq made you hard and you just felt amazing in the gym. But hey best of luck with whatever you decide
I’m not a fan of dbol, but I’m not a fan of deca either. Npp has its place but deca is just too slow IMO. Either way, I guess you use what is appropriate for you and your physiology. Conceit is just a bit of an arse IMO.
Far too cocksure that the absolutes he speaks of are right for EVERYBODY. This alone lets me know that he doesn’t have much experience in this game. The more experience you have with other steroid users, the more you realise that you have to keep an open mind…[/quote]
You are exactly right and everyone is different. Conceit does seemed very informed but everyone will not react to that cycle like he did. Just so many people recomment Dbol like is some sort of life saver. Personally, I like feeling hard and seeing lean gains. I am not a big fan or orals in general becuz of there toxicity to the liver. Bushidobadboy, you and DC, I take your comments serious and your knowledge. You both seem like you have been in the game for a while and know what your talkin about. Maybe you can answer this. Many people on this site always talk about just Test for a first cycle. Why? I always here for one reason or another that your first cycle are your best gains and if your knowledgeable about it, why not run something that you will get the most potential out of. To me, just Test cycles and Dbols are kinda a waste but the IMO.
bush, i apologize if i seem close-minded, and i do agree that on a mass scale effects range greatly. things to consider are such things as sensitivity to a certain drug, biological/genetic threads, only to name a few. the 2 biggest drugs i see to be all over the place as far as effects/side effects are deca and equipoise.
some people respond great to deca and not so well to eq, as some respond great to equipoise better than deca. but overall, the gains are more sustained. i also agree that much of the gains lost after a dbol cycle are because of inexperience and a person wanting to “get big quick”.
also contributing is lack of education. so many people jump into steroids and take dbol because, your right, it is relatively cheap, and its attractive because of its short duration. but so many people get into steroids without an education of pct’s and dbol, along with anadrol can send you into a psychological plunge without proper post-cycle therapy.
a big reason i do not recommend dbol, among the other reasons ive stated, is because its easy to weed out the people who say “i only want to jumpstart my training with one cycle” because based on my experience those are the guys who wont workout again. i believe in a steady, but heavy, gain. and i think anyone will agree with me when i say, if someone rather get big in 4wks rather than 8-12wks, purely because they cant wait any longer, is more likely to burnout sooner, and isnt truly wanting the bodybuilding lifestyle, OR isn’t truly willing to work to get something they want.
i hope you all will agree that steroids should be used as an edge, or a maximizing “x-factor” rather than an “easy way” or a “jumpstart”. so many bodybuilders bust their f*cking asses for years naturally before taking steroids. there is pride in that effort! what person who works hard believes that a cheater should surpass them? steroids alone will NOT make a person.
hard work and experience, with a “boost” is the final stack we should all agree on. so in conclusion, bush, i do have an open mind, and thats why i dont suggest an old-school method of gaining. and furthermore, whoever said Pro Pharm Laboratories is a computer technology company is a dumbass. Pro Pharm Laboratories, in St.Louis, Missouri is a sister company to SAB-Pharma, in Boucherville, Quebec Canada.
Due to restrictions on qualified Class III drugs in the United States, SAB-Pharma produces all of our synthetic hormones, while both sites do lab studies, and a multitude of chemical tests and enhancements to several drugs, not just steroids.
I’ve never used steroids in my life, nor do I tend to, but I’m such a badass, that I automatically know everything there is to know about the subject. I’m sorry, but can’t anyone write anything without insulting anybody? Well, except for conceit, who is obviously a troll. To wit, in his “email” to the professional football player he writes “As discussed earlier in this book, esterified compounds have a high affinity to stay stored in fatty tissues.” Book?? What book?? This was an email, wasn’t it?
Let me talk about why I won’t do steroids. One of the reasons is that some of you meatheads reading this are calling me a pussy under your breath, saying that I am scared of needles or some crap like that. I’ve seen so many posters on bb forums basically saying that they are bigger than everybody else, and that anybody bigger than them is only that way because they take more drugs. Drugs are simultaneously the reason they are as big as they are, and a scapegoat for why they’re not the biggest.
Bodybuilding is often a symptom of deeper mental problems. Bodybuilders and powerlifters have a mortality rate 4 times higher than the general public, and one of the themes of bodybuilding everywhere is, “I’d rather die young and huge than old and frail.” Bodybuilders often suffer from body image problems similar to the anorexic, and both of them will do anything (even pump themselves with dangerous drugs) in order to look a certain way.
I started training two years ago. I gained 60 pounds, only 10 of which was fat (as an ectomorph, my bf was very very low when I started). When I look in the mirror, I get a sense of satisfaction that you juicers will never get, because my physique, my abs and veins, were all gotten naturally, with endless research into diet and nutrition. That, and hard-core training. So, go ahead and have your little bitch sessions about what chemicals to inject when and for how long.
Go ahead and insult everybody else on this forum. Go ahead and copy stuff from a book (conceit) and try to pass it off as your own. I challenge any one of you to look me up and challenge me to a posedown when you’re 50. I might not be able to kick your ass now, but I will be able to then and you know it.
Jeez Gerby! Speaking of “deeper mental problems”. 4 posts to your name too.
I have never juiced either but I’m not stupid enough to think I could compete on the same level as those that do. It’s a personal choice and nobody cares about your opinion on a subject you know nothing about… Lighten Up!
[quote]Kruiser wrote:
Jeez Gerby! Speaking of “deeper mental problems”. 4 posts to your name too.
I have never juiced either but I’m not stupid enough to think I could compete on the same level as those that do. It’s a personal choice and nobody cares about your opinion on a subject you know nothing about… Lighten Up![/quote]
Don’t worry kruiser, I don’t take this stuff seriously, but I am a big fan of intellectual property rights. When conceit copied from a book and passed it off as his own, I couldn’t help but get upset. This is very similar to the roiders out there who claim that their muscles are “their own” in the sense the drugs had nothing to do with it.
Drugs are indeed a personal choice, and I will never criticize people for using them. Just be honest about how you got those muscles, and just because the roider is 30 pounds bigger than me doesn’t mean anything except he took drugs and I didn’t. However, you can bet that he’ll be condescending, and reduce himself to personal attacks, like many people have in this forum, including you.
We all know that many bodybuilders suffer from depression and body image issues. I don’t know if you do or your friends do, much as you have no idea of I do. By the way, you cared enough about my post to reply to it. I don’t care about the vast majority of posts I read. What’s your point??
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
gerby wrote:
I’ve never used steroids in my life, nor do I tend to, but I’m such a badass, that I automatically know everything there is to know about the subject. I’m sorry, but can’t anyone write anything without insulting anybody? Well, except for conceit, who is obviously a troll. To wit, in his “email” to the professional football player he writes “As discussed earlier in this book, esterified compounds have a high affinity to stay stored in fatty tissues.” Book?? What book?? This was an email, wasn’t it?
Let me talk about why I won’t do steroids. One of the reasons is that some of you meatheads reading this are calling me a pussy under your breath, saying that I am scared of needles or some crap like that. I’ve seen so many posters on bb forums basically saying that they are bigger than everybody else, and that anybody bigger than them is only that way because they take more drugs. Drugs are simultaneously the reason they are as big as they are, and a scapegoat for why they’re not the biggest.
Do we care why you will never use steroids? No, this is a steroid forum… Also, you presume too much, thinking that we would mutter ‘pussy’ under our breath at you for choosing not to use hormones to improve your gym performance/physique. Most of us are men who have made our descisions as to what we do with our bodies. As such, we are happy to let others get on with their lives, without getting our knickers in a twist. In short: We don’t give a shit whether you do or do not use steroids.
Bodybuilding is often a symptom of deeper mental problems. Bodybuilders and powerlifters have a mortality rate 4 times higher than the general public, and one of the themes of bodybuilding everywhere is, “I’d rather die young and huge than old and frail.” Bodybuilders often suffer from body image problems similar to the anorexic, and both of them will do anything (even pump themselves with dangerous drugs) in order to look a certain way.
Are you a psychologist? Please tell me about these mental problems that bodybuilders have. While you are at it, please tell me what mental problems you have that turned you into a ‘bodybuilder’, after all you are about to tell us all about your outstanding natural bodybuilding accomplishments…
I started training two years ago. I gained 60 pounds, only 10 of which was fat (as an ectomorph, my bf was very very low when I started). When I look in the mirror, I get a sense of satisfaction that you juicers will never get, because my physique, my abs and veins, were all gotten naturally, with endless research into diet and nutrition. That, and hard-core training. So, go ahead and have your little bitch sessions about what chemicals to inject when and for how long.
It really seems to me that in fact, it is YOU who have the ‘issues’ here, lol. You strut and preen, whilst making horrendous generalisations about how steroid users will never know the same sense of accomplishment that you experience. Really? You do know that testosterone is a natural chemical right? Or are you just too high and mighty to worry about trivialities like that? You do know that steroids don’t magically give you a fabulous body right? They simply facilitate a faster rate of recovery and protein synthesis. Or is that another inconvenient fact that you would rather overlook?
Go ahead and insult everybody else on this forum. Go ahead and copy stuff from a book (conceit) and try to pass it off as your own. I challenge any one of you to look me up and challenge me to a posedown when you’re 50. I might not be able to kick your ass now, but I will be able to then and you know it.
Dude, you are now just a riseable little internet bigman. “Look me up and challenge me to a posedown when you’re 50.” WHAT. THE. FUCK. Is going on in that mellon of yours? Hohoho, so you are saying that you have a relatively crap body now, but that magically your body will surpass that of the average juicer as you get older. Why is that exactly?
Don’t you realise that as your natural test levels decline, leaving you feeling and looking shitty, mine will remain ever young…Or perhaps you feel that we will all be dead, or burned out by 50, because those evil steroids will have fucked us up. Dude, you need to actually engage the grey cells before you type in future - if you want to discuss shit with people who actually have the first clue what they are talking about. Something which you do not, you bigotted, fitness nazi.[/quote]
I seem to recall writing that people would resort to meaningless personal insults. Thank you for proving many of my points. All of the generalizations that I have made have been demonstrated in the literature, and weren’t personal knocks on anyone here (other than conceit, who steals other people words). Drugs are a choice, so be my guest and do them. Again, statistics show that steroid users have a much higher mortality rate and rate of disease.
So you plan on taking roids for the rest of your life?? Oh, and what personal accomplishments have I “stutted out?” I simply said that I gained 60 pounds naturally. I think that it is pretty good. If you don’t, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just can’t imagine that I’m the only person who notices the roid rage here. So many personal attacks. What good do they do? Like some roid head who knows nothing about me is going to hurt my feelings by calling me a nazi. These are just my thoughts, as your posts are your thoughts. The readers will read what they want, discard most of it, and apply what they find helpful.
I think that it is a good thing for someone thinking about using steroids for the first time to hear as much experience has he can, from people who have used all kinds of different cycles, and perhaps some thoughts from somebody who has never used before and doesn’t intend to. But, if you think that he should only hear from the dark side, well, again, we’ll agree to disagree.
[quote]gerby wrote:
Kruiser wrote:
Jeez Gerby! Speaking of “deeper mental problems”. 4 posts to your name too.
I have never juiced either but I’m not stupid enough to think I could compete on the same level as those that do. It’s a personal choice and nobody cares about your opinion on a subject you know nothing about… Lighten Up!
Don’t worry kruiser, I don’t take this stuff seriously, but I am a big fan of intellectual property rights. When conceit copied from a book and passed it off as his own, I couldn’t help but get upset. This is very similar to the roiders out there who claim that their muscles are “their own” in the sense the drugs had nothing to do with it.
Drugs are indeed a personal choice, and I will never criticize people for using them. Just be honest about how you got them, and just because the roider is 30 pounds bigger than me doesn’t mean anything except he took drugs and I didn’t. However, you can bet that he’ll be condescending, and reduce himself to personal attacks, like many people have in this forum, including you.
We all know that many bodybuilders suffer from depression and body image issues. I don’t know if you do or your friends to, much as you have no idea of I do. By the way, you cared enough about my post to reply to it. I don’t care about the vast majority of posts I read. What’s your point??[/quote]
You talk about someone like conceit, who you don’t know, and may know his stuff. You on the other hand just coming into a thread about steroids and assuming what we think, saying we call someone like you a “pussy”. Steroids aren’t used for new people just getting into lifting.
They are usually ( I can’t speak for all ) for people who already have a baseline physique,have been training for quite some time and got their gains like you did natural. Then make a personal decision to kick it up a notch. Me personally, I would never make fun of someone for the weight they use or whether or not their on AAS.
ok gerbil, (yes i do mean gerbil because your running around in circles with your high and mighty anti-steroids bullshit) so you jump into a topic and think you know everything. so if you know everything, then obviously you knew that my quoted section in an email was an exerpt, and you know that you have no clue what was said before the email, during the rest of the email, and you know everything about my relationships. well, as anyone knows from reading my posts, i write… ALOT. kind of, oh i dunno, like a novel!! just like in any text i write, or any EMAIL i write. or any private message i write like some on here will attest to. so when i said discussed earlier in this book, since you know all there is to know about me, you obviously knew i was made fun of, in an earlier email, about my novel-writing abilities, and abilities to bore someone with long “summaries”. you didnt know any of that? hmmm… well then!! i demand you to find the “book” that may have been from. the only way you will find that “book” is if you can somehow hack into my personal EMAIL, look through my sent EMAILS, and find the EMAIL that i was writing. but you know everything, so you knew that already… in any event, i respect the criticism of the others on this site because they have suggested what works for them, while trying to discredit what i was saying. i can accept that. because at least they have tried their own thing and it has been a success to then. but to have an ashton kutcher wannabe try and punk me? thats absurd. your nothing. anybody here who has taken steroids has muscles as real as yours. muscle is muscle no matter how you build it. disect a muscle made from steroids, and disect a muscle made “naturally” and you will find no structural difference. anyone who knows anything about steroids and bodybuilding knows that steroids dont do shit without a descent diet, proper rest, and a good workout and work ethics. ive seen plenty of people walk around a gym, talk more than lift, then start taking steroids, and go through the same routine, and gain nothing but fat. but steroids are magical aren’t they?! i also have seen guys bust their ass, take steroids, continue to bust their ass, and gain great strength, but no size, because they dont eat right. ive also seen guys who work their ass off, eat right, take steroids, and continue everything the same and gain great size, but they dont have the muscle development to become a body builder. bigger, doesnt automatically mean you can become a bodybuilder. steroids can enhance genetics, but it cant change how your muscles grow. plus, steroids are used more widely than just by bodybuilders… are telling me that you are able to out fight most MMA/UFC fighters? are you telling me that you are able to play football better than many nfl athletes? steroids dont improve on talent. once again, a steroid is merely a boost. we are all here to help those who need it. and when dealing with drugs like these if you dont know what your doing its easy to hurt yourself. and noone here wants anyone to jack themselves up. but once again, gerbil, you shouldve known that since you seem to think you know everything.
Are there two different Conceit’s here? The first couple posts were childish, the following ones sounded more mature. Sorry if I came off too harsh, your tone was a bit, well you know.
[quote]TheBeat wrote:
Are there two different Conceit’s here? The first couple posts were childish, the following ones sounded more mature. Sorry if I came off too harsh, your tone was a bit, well you know. [/quote]
no there is only one conceit in here. and once i read bush’s post about being one sided i realized that i was coming on very strong to one side and being argumentative when i shouldve only given my advice as i saw it. instead i came in acting though i am god of the steroid world. as i do know a lot about steroids and other drugs, i lost sight of the fact that every day im learning something new. i also lost sight of the fact that we aren’t in a thread to talk shit on everyone. pump asked a legit question on a site that is here to provide answers, and instead i came in a bit strong. while that wasnt my intent, ive always had to work hard and explain everything. plus, when i started posting, i didnt have things in order. i admit a social fault in my character. in essence, you could say i was “preaching to the choir”. so, i dont mind you being so harsh, beat. i was trying to offer serious advice, in a childish tone. to all i apologize.
[quote]conceit13 wrote:
TheBeat wrote:
Are there two different Conceit’s here? The first couple posts were childish, the following ones sounded more mature. Sorry if I came off too harsh, your tone was a bit, well you know.
no there is only one conceit in here. and once i read bush’s post about being one sided i realized that i was coming on very strong to one side and being argumentative when i shouldve only given my advice as i saw it. instead i came in acting though i am god of the steroid world. as i do know a lot about steroids and other drugs, i lost sight of the fact that every day im learning something new. i also lost sight of the fact that we aren’t in a thread to talk shit on everyone. pump asked a legit question on a site that is here to provide answers, and instead i came in a bit strong. while that wasnt my intent, ive always had to work hard and explain everything. plus, when i started posting, i didnt have things in order. i admit a social fault in my character. in essence, you could say i was “preaching to the choir”. so, i dont mind you being so harsh, beat. i was trying to offer serious advice, in a childish tone. to all i apologize.[/quote]
This was a very good post, conceit. You finally admitted that you are not god. In my opinion, twisting my name into “gerbil” is very childish, and writing something like that only to write another post apologizing for being childish and condescending sounds really hypocritical to me. I will apologize myself for saying something to you that could have indeed been false. I’m sorry for making an assumption. You are also right that muscle is muscle, whether from steroids or otherwise. But answer me this, when somebody at the gym asks how you got so big do you ever mention that you inject test into your ass? If you’re putting on 20-40 pounds in a cycle, above what you would have during the same time without roids, obviously the drugs had a lot to do with your physique. I know that I’m on a steroid forum here, so most of you aren’t going to want to hear about how proud I am to have made good gains naturally. I do not think that I can beat NFL players, nor did I say that. What I did say was that looking at the entire demographic of roid users, they have a much higher mortality rate and rates of disease over time. The bottom line is that the chances are, I will be healthier when I’m older than the average roid user. Most users ignore these stats. One person who flamed me even used the term “forever young” when talking about his future hormone levels. If you don’t believe that to be false, I really feel bad for you. I just wanted the person who started this post, who is considering a cycle, to realize that with what we know about training and nutrition today, drugs aren’t necessary in obtaining that elusive physique. He’s going to make his own decision, but do you really think that it is wise to only get information from steroid users, and to ignore anyone who has never used? Your post also begs a real legitimate question of your logic. That question is, why is it that my decision to not use is automatically less informed than your decision to use? Why is it not possible for me to have fancy degrees and years of research under my belt, only I decided not to use? Isn’t that a lot like saying the NASA guy doing mission control for 3 decades doesn’t know anything about space travel because he’s never been in space? Just curious. Mainly, I just think that so many roid boys have this superiority complex. I think that it is much more of an accomplishment to build a eye popping physique without roids than with roids, much like it is more of an accomplishment for a first gen college grad to earn that degree than someone from a long line of doctors in the family. Pumping yourself full of roids and then running around with your nose in the air flexing your muscles is like raping someone and then bragging to your friends about how you scored with this hot chick. So you might beat me in an amateur bodybuilding competition (being very careful to pass the drug test). You must feel real good to be able to beat me with the 30 pounds of muscle you have for no reason other than the roids. Even though the playing field isn’t the same, I’ll still compete, and you can feel real good about that trophy.
[quote]gerby wrote:
I seem to recall writing that people would resort to meaningless personal insults. Thank you for proving many of my points. All of the generalizations that I have made have been demonstrated in the literature, and weren’t personal knocks on anyone here (other than conceit, who steals other people words). Drugs are a choice, so be my guest and do them. Again, statistics show that steroid users have a much higher mortality rate and rate of disease. [/quote]
Produce a study that proves those on AAS has a “higher rate of disease”.
Oh - and the statement about steroid users having a higher mortality rate is laughable. Last I checked, the mortality rate for humans is 100%.
But I am sure you have plenty of solid proof to back that up, no?
[quote]
So you plan on taking roids for the rest of your life?? Oh, and what personal accomplishments have I “stutted out?” I simply said that I gained 60 pounds naturally. I think that it is pretty good. If you don’t, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just can’t imagine that I’m the only person who notices the roid rage here. So many personal attacks. What good do they do? Like some roid head who knows nothing about me is going to hurt my feelings by calling me a nazi. These are just my thoughts, as your posts are your thoughts. The readers will read what they want, discard most of it, and apply what they find helpful.[/quote] .
Which is worse? Your estrogen filled trolling or having a good old heated discussion? Sorry, Sparky - I already have a wife. Thankfully she is considerably more enlightened about AAS than you are, but she whines just like you do when we fight.
What input can someone that doesn’t use, and is obviously completely ignorant of the subject have?
Let the air out of your balloon - I think it’s cutting off some circulation.
Test with a d/bol kickstart
Dezz
i didnt say i was proud that i had to use steroids to gain as much as many of my friends gained naturally. for everyone in this world, genetics lay out, for the most part, what they can and cant do. i bust my ass in the gym since the time i was 15. 175lbs was the heaviest i ever got. i had better work ethic, and ate more than anyone i knew. my genetics are, as such, my testosterone levels are relatively low, my metabolism is extraordinarily high. and my family is not comprised of strong man competitors and bodybuilders. its amazing that im as tall as i am. ive always been extremely strong, but could never gain weight. so when i blew up in 10wks and everyone in the gym watched me, it wasnt talked about, but everyone knew. i envy those who dont have to work as hard to gain more. but i didnt need to be bigger. i only wanted to see for myself what the hype was all about. i applaud those who naturally reach their climax, but when you reach your genetic peak, how else do you plan on getting bigger? there is NO OTHER OPTION besides steroids. i never said steroids wouldnt make someone bigger. but they dont make an athlete, they dont produce talent, they dont produce perfectly squared pecs and perfect horseshoe triceps. steroids, as ive said before, should only be a boost. i do not advocate beginner lifters to start juicing. why? because i DO believe in hard work. i would have to agree with rain, though, that steroid “users” dont have a higher rate of diseases. although, steroid “abusers” do have a greater risk of natural immune system breakdown. i also would have to agree that mortality rate of humans is 100%, unless you have watched talladega nights and believe ricky bobby, when he says “98% of all people will die at some point in their life.” and if you were talking about suicide rate, thats inaccurate also. while noone can deny the fact that steroids can cause hormonal imbalances so extreme, that some have committed suicide, it is safe to say that most, if not all, of these people either were ignorant about what to do after a cycle, or they merely ignored proper pct’s to keep hormones manageable. whether someone is abusing steroids, or avoiding pct’s it all comes down to lack of education. and that is what everyone is trying to offer here. like i said, noone wants someone to get hurt because they didnt know. however, no matter how much knowledge someone may have, there are still those few who will push something past the limit. while sad, its a personal choice.
[quote]gerby wrote:
~The bottom line is that the chances are, I will be healthier when I’m older than the average roid user. Most users ignore these stats. One person who flamed me even used the term “forever young” when talking about his future hormone levels.~[/quote]
indeed, i do believe that to be false. once again, it comes down to use and abuse. in moderation, alcohol can be good for you, while in excess, it can be fatal. in moderation, water is undeniably great for you! but, as we have seen in an unfortunate contest, water can be fatal. steroids, if used correctly, can indeed add a certain level of vitality. a good friend from UCLA did a case study on HGH and found that in proper doses, HGH can add size, strength, increased immune system efficiency, increased vascularity, and can actually add years to human life. basically, his findings were that HGH was a “fountain of youth” of sorts. many of these same benefits can be attributed to steroids. but in certain doses. i could go on about how the country and the social security system would explode if everyone was living longer, and how the government has hidden many of these findings, but thats not the point. the point is so many things are knocked because of their side effects, when really its only a select few who see the horrible side effects mentioned so much. what would happen if we stopped treating cancer patience because some of the drugs kill 3 out of every 100 people? you cant base your opinions on rare side effects.
[quote]gerby wrote:
~I just wanted the person who started this post, who is considering a cycle, to realize that with what we know about training and nutrition today, drugs aren’t necessary in obtaining that elusive physique.~[/quote]
the person who started this post has worked very hard for quite a long time, naturally. and has hit his genetic ceiling. so yes, it is now time to let science take over where nature left off.
[quote]gerby wrote:
~He’s going to make his own decision, but do you really think that it is wise to only get information from steroid users, and to ignore anyone who has never used? ~[/quote]
hes not ignoring someone who has never used. this is his first cycle ever after working hard for the accomplishments and gains he has made. he has his own information from the years that he hasnt used.
[quote]gerby wrote:
~That question is, why is it that my decision to not use is automatically less informed than your decision to use? Why is it not possible for me to have fancy degrees and years of research under my belt, only I decided not to use? Isn’t that a lot like saying the NASA guy doing mission control for 3 decades doesn’t know anything about space travel because he’s never been in space?~[/quote]
its a good point, but its not like someone in mission control. because that guy in the control seat isnt passing judgement, saying that an astronaut knows less about ‘experiencing’ space travel than he does. you may very well know more scientifically, but without experience, its just like bush said, “The more experience you have with other steroid users, the more you realise that you have to keep an open mind…” something that, in the beginning of this thread, i didnt do, or even think about. i have a lot of experience with steroid users, especially outside of controlled laboratory studies, and have seen different people take different stuff, and have different results. but above all, no matter what results any steroid users have, they all have one thing in common that those, like you, dont… an experience. a story. and a valid opinion of what has worked for them.
[quote]gerby wrote:
~So you might beat me in an amateur bodybuilding competition (being very careful to pass the drug test). You must feel real good to be able to beat me with the 30 pounds of muscle you have for no reason other than the roids.~[/quote]
i probably couldnt beat you in a bodybuilding competition because, once again, steroids dont make up for genetic muscular growth. i cant hit a 90mph fast ball. thats not my talent. plus steroids dont increase a god-given eye/hand coordination. ive always been a football player and i excelled at the 110meter hurdles. and that was without steroids. my talent in hurdles did not and have not increased… even after steroids. so to reiterate… steroids dont make a man.
and last…
[quote]gerby wrote:
~Even though the playing field isn’t the same, I’ll still compete, and you can feel real good about that trophy.~[/quote]
the playing field is the same, and the access is the same. the only differences are talent, determination, and ~choice~. you have just as much access to the same substances as any of us. and you ‘choose’ not to take any substances. you choose to naturally build up your body. and i applaud you for not taking BCAA’s, creatine, protein shakes, protein bars, gakic, Alpha Male, NO Explode, ibuprofen, or any other supplement, meal replacement, or medicine. im proud of you!