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Eqipose/Test or Dianabol/Test?

Hey Guys,

Im still debating if I should use dianabol as a 4 week kick start for my first cycle ever with test or just add the eq in for 10 weeks along with test enth(500 mg) at a dosage of around 200-300mg … Does any one have any experience running equipose with test…would the side affects be less (liver,acne, hair loss, higher/lower bd)as compared to using the dianabol and test? I’m worried about my hair and liver and i know dbol can be one of the hardest on those two.

my goal is to try and get 20 pounds out of my first cycle and I’m not sure if that is possible with test alone and also get with the least amount of side-effects and the most quality muscle possible without so much bloat( I’ll be running arimidex at .25mg a day though and maybe nolvadex at 10mg)

any thoughts?

Thanks!!!

In my opinion first cycles should be test only. If you are going to add anything to it, Dbol is a good choice. So is proviron.

I’d get a couple cycles done first, before adding something like EQ.

Why the nolva at 10/day? Seems counter productive to me. I only use AI’s when I have a problem. So far personally they haven’t been necessary. If you’re going to run Adex no need for the nolva daily while on.

Little background would be useful as well. Age, training history, etc…

you will need to run eq for at least 12 week min and it should be run at 600mg week. I would still use the dbol as a kick start.

Eq does need to run longer than 10 weeks for optimal results unless you load up really high in the first few weeks. I say go with the Test/dbol, as dc said, save the eq for later. nolva at 10mg e/d is something that many people disagree on. from my experience, it is a staple in my cycles as my balls never shrank as much on cycles using it throughout compared to ones without. It does limit your gains, but I feel that it makes recovery much easier. your choice

Test 500mg e/w 1-10
Dbol 20-30mg e/w 1-4

keep it simple, you will get your 20+ lbs easily as long as you get adequate calories

good luck

DezZ

dont use the EQ it is fairly weak and will need to be run about 14 weeks to see any kind of real results. The dbol is great and you will surely grow on it. If you can’t grow on a dbol cycle then you are not doing something right. Also bump the dbol up to 50mg/day

dude ive just been browsing these forums but i stumbled upon your forum… i dont care what anyone says. f…k dbol! the risk isnt worth the reward, not too mention if your looking for lean bulk mass, dbol isnt crap! there is a VAST WORLD of other amazing supplements you could take! first of all, out of all the cycles you will ever take, your first will show the biggest gains and is most important.

mainly, because your receptors arent clouded with toxins. you need a good base to start, just like transitioning from natural to juice. you need to start at a effective dose with room to increase… when i first started taking equipoise i was getting pretty upset because i didnt think it was working. in fact in time i was noticing a loss of weight, but everyone said they noticed me getting bigger.

also i was harder than ive ever been. but since your talking about your first stack, i would suggest, in fact almost demand, that you start with a test/deca blend. i know many people who say propionate is best. it gets to your system so quick, but i believe in enanthate. i would suggest 600 mg enanthate (2 mL injection with the strengths i receive, 300 mg/mL) stacked with 600mg deca (once again 2 mL injection with 300 mg/mL strengths).

i would suggest something like an 8 week cycle, (staying on a monday/thursday interval with the shots. i.e. deca shot on mondays, test shot on thursdays) however with 10 mL vials you will have leftovers. the leftovers will be good for your next cycle when you can move up to a higher dose. another great test is sustanon 250. many will agree/disagree with this next statement, but i would wait to take sus250 til your 2nd or 3rd cycle. its a personal thing.

the advantage of sus250 is the fact that it has fast acting, mid-level, and slow acting tests. in comparison the recommended enanthate takes about 4 weeks to see results. the reason why waiting 4 weeks isnt a problem is because it takes aproximately the same time for deca to provide results. but you will be pleased once you begin seeing results!

the advantage of a test/deca blend are beyond strength gains, and size gains. its one of the safest, cleanest, and has one of the lowest tendancies for estrogen conversion. you will not believe your strength! and your size?? ridiculous! i gained 37lbs and had a body fat of 11.2% (impressively DOWN from my initial 17%) on my first cycle of similar stack. and people will say oh its different for everyone…

anyone i have suggested this stack to for their first time have gained from 24 to 43lbs of lean mass. i went through a 5 week off cycle and lost 6lbs. so screw anyone who says you cant maintain size and strength after your cycle. and screw anyone who says its not lean or real muscle. as for the other benefits of the stack… unlike dbol, anadrol, etc., it doesnt give you the aggressive (roid rage), rather it inhibits a “good feeling”. you feel great, worry-less. its really kind of hard to explain without taking it.

deca is also amazing for any shoulder, elbow, or other joint pain. which is another reason i highly recommend it for a cycle thatll throw on such huge mass. deca is HIV studies has been PROVEN to increase lean muscle mass and has also been declared beneficial to increasing the strength of the immune system. once you have been through a few cycles throwing something like trenbolone or equipoise would be great!

i would say however for your first cycle, test/deca is the only way to go! good luck and any other questions just let me know.

Conceit, in your first post here you tell the guy to use sustanon, because its a great test, and deca. You tell him to skip the dbol.

What is your rationale for this? Sustanon is a very bad choice for test IMO. Its painful, needs to be shot very often, and personally I feel no newbie should start out with this. Deca isn’t a good first cycle choice, and you tell him skip the dbol which in my opinion is an awesome first cycle choice. The gains aren’t lean, but the strength and muscle size flies up, making the lifter feel big and strong, this correlates directly into how hard they attack the rest of the cycle. I think dbol is a great choice. I would really like to know however, where you get your information.

ahhhh im getting different opinions, i don’t know what to do!! but thanks for all the input though!

if it makes any difference, below was my original plan below that i posted a while back. if i add in the eq and get rid of the dbol would i really need to add 400-600mg of eq or can i get by with 300? cause according the the anabolics 2006 book they gave a sample beginner stack of only test at 250mg and eq at 250mg a week…

my goal is to get over 200 pounds(hopefully with a good amount that is muscle within 3 cycles with the least amount of side effects and damage to my body .

My reasons for doing this is to pursue a sport/entertainment profession that i am currently too thin for

below is the original plan I was going with and background info on me:

Some background info on myself:
23 year old male. I have been lifting for 4 years (with the most time off would be a week a year) and train 3 times a week with a trainer at the best gym or second best gym in the nation according to muscle and fitness magazine:-)

I started at a weight of about 105 and am at 161-165 at a height of 5’5. My body fat is about 16.5 though I haven’t measured in a while. This will be my first cycle and am looking to put on about 20 pounds that I can keep after the cycle is over with if possible.

The cycle:
weeks 1-4 25 mg of Dianabol everyday

weeks 1-12.5 arimidex at either .25 or .5 mg?

weeks1-10 500 mg of test. Enanthate, 250mg shot on mon and another 250mg shot on thursday each week doing this (during the end of my 9th week I begin HCG everyother day after my last 250mg shot of test enth.on the 9th week for 500ius every other day and continue with the arimidex at either .25 or .5mg and maybe add in nolvadex at 10mg since the hcg can add in more estrogen problems

weeks11 HCG every other day at 500ius and arimidex, maybe add in nolvadex?

week 12 wait 3 days from my last HCG injection then begin PCT of nolvadex at 40mg every day
week 13 40 mg nolvadex everyday
week14 30mg of nolvadex everyday
week 15 30 mg of nolvadex everyday
week 16 20 mg of nolvadex everyday
week 17 20 mg of nolvadex everyday

i along with dc do not agree with some of conceit’s info. sust sucks, plain and simple. stick to just test and dbol as we suggested before. the dbol will give you dramatic strength and muscle gains quickly as well as a sense of well being. he claims you keep none of your d-bol gains?

i disagree as the test kicking in week 4 or 5 will help to solidify the gains you made from the dbol. again, save the deca or EQ for a later cycle. some guys go through hell recovering from EQ anyways.

DezZ

my mistake, some people go through hell recovering from DECA, it can really shut you down. your layout looks good, for such a mild cycle, hcg wouldn’t be necessary. everything else looks fine, good luck

DezZ

yeah I hear about a lot of people having trouble with deca so i’ll never use it plus its in the system for over a year and i may need to be drug tested eventually when i try out for the sport i am doing this for.

would it really be bad though running eq instead of dbol for a first cycle along with the test. I just dont’t have that great of a feeling running a drug like dianabol that is so hard on the hair and somewhat the liver.

eq is pretty mild on the body and only lasts in the body for 3-4 months correct?

i’m just trying to to get over 200 pounds within 3 bulking cycles and a quick cutting cycle/conditiong cycle( i don’t have time for more since im putting off grad school as it is) with the most quality muscle possible so im not too concerned about having weight during the cycle , just what the outcome is.

thanks!!!

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[quote]Dezz wrote:
i disagree as the test kicking in week 4 or 5 will help to solidify the gains you made from the dbol. again, save the deca or EQ for a later cycle. some guys go through hell recovering from EQ anyways.
DezZ[/quote]

Its not that test solidifies the gains, we all know the gains are water. But with dbol I feel big, feel strong, always in the zone to train. I feel like an animal. It really gets me ready for the cycle. There is no way to keep the dbol gains, but it does make me a lot more focused and ready to go get the more permanent gains from the test.

I hope this clarifies my position.

[quote]Dezz wrote:
my mistake, some people go through hell recovering from DECA, it can really shut you down.
DezZ[/quote]

ok lets first start off with the dumbass that cant read about the sustanon. if u find someone who can hold your hand and read to you you will notice i said i would hold off on sus250 and wouldn’t take it first cycle. second, sus250 doesnt cause any pain. i have shot and knnow several people who take it with no pain. so, maybe u should buy some clean drugs, so as not to feel any pain. id like to see YOUR proof that is causes pain.

next, popping dbol may give the “image” of being bigger, but its no better than a helium balloon. after you get of dbol your back down and no stronger. who in their right mind would spend their hard earned dollar on a drug that only allows them to keep 50% of their gains.

you wouldnt buy a car with a claim of 500hp, only to find out 2 weeks later youve lost 250 of that horsepower, so why would you buy dbol just to get a “feeling” of power, only to realize a few weeks later youve lost half of anything you worked so hard for? why, when you can keep 86%, or BETTER, of your weight with a deca/test stack? and your strength only goes down MINIMALLY!!

if you want to get huge, get hard, and look great, plus keep your gains, dont take dbol. what these folks are forgetting to mention when they say it gives you the drive and power and focus to complete a workout is, for some people, dbol actually can throw you into a mild/deep depression and could actually be adverse when trying to get pumped to workout. with a deca/test stack, you wont have that problem. you will feel so good about life, and how you look, that you will want to workout. it makes it fun actually.

plus you dont have a deceiving notion of getting bigger and being stronger, because with deca, you actually ARE stronger. comparing size, dbol gives you mainly water retention. the ways in which deca exerts its anabolic effects are two-fold. first of all it’s a good mediator for nitrogen retention. when nitrogen retention is high, in essence it means that the cells are taking up more nitrogen than they are releasing.

why is this a good thing though? well every amino acid has what is known as an amino-group, which contains nitrogen. when nitrogen is retained it means there is a high concentration of amino acids in a cell, which in turn positively affects the rate of protein synthesis. since every tissue in the body is made from protein, including muscle, this means that muscle hypertrophy is facilitated.

a second factor is through estrogen. while deca’s rate of aromatization is considerably smaller than that of testosterone, it does convert to a particularly powerful form of estrogen. this has been noted to increase glycogen storage, growth hormone release and upgrade the androgen receptor in some tissues. thus, making you bigger, harder and stronger.

also, allowing you to keep your gains. for “really shutting you down”… thats a bunch of shit. its less likely to ceiling your natural test levels than the test you want to take anyway. its not a matter of shutting you down, you plan on taking hcg anyway, so you will be fine. but, if you really plan on destroying your liver by taking dbol, then you might as well take something you will retain a LITTLE more size with, and take anadrol.

either way your not going to be pleased with your quality gains. overall, i knew there were some ignorant people in the steroid world, but never have i seen the level of ignorance and uneducation i have seen through all this. maybe its just the fact that people are bullheaded and want to stick to an “old-school” way of thinking,
even when that thinking isn’t the best, nor safest alternative.

but, i prefer quality, i prefer exploring better options, and i prefer change, when its undoubtedly better. everyone can attack me all they want, but there is no substance to their believes other than they dont want to admit they couldve had better first cycles if they wouldve done a little more research.

if you want to challenge me, lets see some research, lets see some studies, lets see undeniable proof time after time after time, that your method of test/dbol will provide safer, harder, more quality MUSCLE mass than my test/deca method. it wont happen.

dc is about the closest to the facts than you others trying to attack me are, and shut himself in the foot along with shooting down the test/dbol stack. he admitted to the pumps only being temporary, and that test will not solidify the dbol gains. dbol is nothing more than a mental drug. its a liar. dc, dezz, and anyone else… keep your bloated gains, i like my hardened muscles better.

Here is an email I wrote to a good friend of mine who is playing professional football when he asked me about taking deca and getting tested. I know thats a major concern for you, so I wanted to provide more options…

"The major drawback for competitive purposes is that in many cases nandrolone metabolites will be detectable in a drug screen for up to a year (or more) after use. This is clearly due to the form of administration. As discussed earlier in this book, esterified compounds have a high affinity to stay stored in fatty tissues.

While we can accurately estimate the time frame it will take for a given dose to enter circulation from an injection site, we cannot know for sure that 100% of the steroid will have been metabolized at any given point. Small amounts may indeed be stubborn in leaving fatty tissue, particularly after heavy, longer-term use.

Some quantity of nandrolone decanoate may therefore be left to sporadically enter into the blood stream many months after use. This process may be further aggravated when dieting for a show, a time when body fat sores are being actively depleted (possibly freeing more steroid).

This has no doubt been the cause for many unexpected positives on a drug screen. The fact that nandrolone has been isolated as the “hands-off” injectable for the drug tested athlete is most likely due to its popularity (and therefore common appearance on drug screens).

The same risk would of course hold true for other long chain esterified injectables such as Equipoise, Parabolan and Primobolan.On the other hand we find that the use of the oral nandrolone precursors norandrostenedione and norandrostenediol can allow the drug-tested athlete the benefit of an injectable nandrolone, without the same risk for a positive result.

A recently published French study makes this possibility very clear. During this investigation it was shown that trace levels of the nandrolone metabolites norandrosterone and noretiocholanolone could be found in human urine up to eight months after a single 50mg injection of nandrolone undecanoate.

This time frame shrank to only 8 days with norandrostenediol (50mg) and norandrostenedione (100mg). I have also had the opportunity to speak with an amateur bodybuilder recently, who was unexpectedly subject to a drug screen and now strongly supports the use of oral precursor hormones.

He was using up to 3 grams norandrostenedione daily not very far from the date of the show, and to his amazement did not test positive for steroid use." However, to this effect, I still maintain my stance on oral steroids as being more harmful than any injectable steroid. But, this alternative is still safer and better than dbol, and especially better than my smart ass suggestion to anadrol.

-CONCEIT- You first cycle will show the biggest gains and is most important mainly, because your receptors arent clouded with toxins.

First time gains are better because your Receptors arent Dirty huh?

-CONCEIT- i would suggest something like an 8 week cycle, (staying on a monday/thursday interval with the shots. i.e. deca shot on mondays, test shot on thursdays) however with 10 mL vials you will have leftovers. the leftovers will be good for your next cycle when you can move up to a higher dose.

8 weeks with long acting esters? It takes 5 weeks for Enantate to reach a steady state and 6+ for Deca. Also is there magic in 8 weeks and that is why you would leave a little left over?

-CONCEIT- the advantage of a test/deca blend are beyond strength gains, and size gains. its one of the safest, cleanest

So being one of the cleanest, will it keep your receptors clean or at least cleaner?

-CONCEIT- and has one of the lowest tendancies for estrogen conversion.

Really? Test doesnt convert to estrogen at a high level?

-CONCEIT- next, popping dbol may give the “image” of being bigger, but its no better than a helium balloon. after you get of dbol your back down and no stronger. who in their right mind would spend their hard earned dollar on a drug that only allows them to keep 50% of their gains.

That?s why we use anti-estrogens with D-bol, not really needed for that low tendancy for test to convert though?

-CONCEIT- you can keep 86%, or BETTER, of your weight with a deca/test stack? and your strength only goes down MINIMALLY!!

86% huh, thats a pretty specific number, whered you get it.

-CONCEIT- dbol actually can throw you into a mild/deep depression and could actually be adverse when trying to get pumped to workout.

Did not know that - they have been lying to me and I have been lying to myself.

-CONCEIT- deca exerts its anabolic effects are two-fold. first of all it’s a good mediator for nitrogen retention. when nitrogen retention is high, in essence it means that the cells are taking up more nitrogen than they are releasing. a second factor is through estrogen. while deca’s rate of aromatization is considerably smaller than that of testosterone, it does convert to a particularly powerful form of estrogen. this has been noted to increase glycogen storage, growth hormone release and upgrade the androgen receptor in some tissues. thus, making you bigger, harder and stronger.

So Deca is Anabolic because of Nitrogen retention and Estrogen build-up? Interesting. But not much water retention huh?

-CONCEIT- for really shutting you down… thats a bunch of shit. its less likely to ceiling your natural test levels than the test you want to take anyway. its not a matter of shutting you down, you plan on taking hcg anyway, so you will be fine.

So Deca doesnt really shut you down? I really do not understand what you just said.

-CONCEIT- i knew there were some ignorant people in the steroid world, but never have i seen the level of ignorance and uneducation i have seen through all this.

Through all of what?

-CONCEIT- shut himself in the foot. its a liar. Everything you say

You arent really educated are you?

-CONCEIT- is an email I wrote to a good friend of mine who is playing professional football when he asked me about taking deca and getting tested

You must really know what you are talking about for someone to trust their profession on your advice. Im impressed.

-CONCEIT- The major drawback for competitive purposes is that in many cases nandrolone metabolites will be detectable in a drug screen for up to a year (or more) after use. This is clearly due to the form of administration. As discussed earlier in this book, esterified compounds have a high affinity to stay stored in fatty tissues.

Oh. I get it. You are 12 years old!!! You took this directly from a book and are trying to act like you wrote it. Sad. Very SAD!

-CONCEIT- norandrostenediol (50mg) and norandrostenedione (100mg). I have also had the opportunity to speak with an amateur bodybuilder recently, who was unexpectedly subject to a drug screen and now strongly supports the use of oral precursor hormones.

So you -wrote- this for your professional football -friend- many years ago?

-CONCEIT- He was using up to 3 grams norandrostenedione daily not very far from the date of the show, and to his amazement did not test positive for steroid use.

You also consult with Aspiring Professional Bodybuilders? You should be charging us for your time!

-CONCEIT- I still maintain my stance on oral steroids as being more harmful than any injectable steroid.

SO. Oxandrolone or Proviron are worse than Trenbolone?

This whole thing is a joke isnt it, TC are you playing with us? Who is Conceit really? I read his profile and almost ruptured my spleen. Guys some people dont know that you are kidding, so I felt I had to post. I try not to be mean, but I really do think this is a joke. isnt it?

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yeah, your right what was i thinking? i guess i should throw away my twelve and a half years of schooling, my doctorate in chemical engineering, my supportive major in pharmacology, and my amazing career at a little company called propharm, and accept that your inferior information is correct.

and i suppose all of your “facts” and justifications are written in stone, so it has to be right. i apologize that i didnt get into the alpha and beta enzymes and the chemical stranding and the extractions of certain molecules and introductions of other molecular structures. and i apologize for not going into the different types of estrogen and certain conversions, and the testosterone synthesis and suppressions of such synthesis. and DHT conversions and other scientific babble.

i was only giving the basics so that he would have the IMPORTANT information needed to make an educated decision. gosh, what was i thinking!? im done arguing my FACTS and points over a meat-head website. ill let continuing work do the talk. so when you decide to pick a couple vials of test or deca, boldenone or trenbolone, or many other drugs i fabricate and break down everyday to make folks healthier, and meat-heads bigger, you can thank me in the back of your mind.

[quote]conceit13 wrote:
yeah, your right what was i thinking? i guess i should throw away my twelve and a half years of schooling, my doctorate in chemical engineering, my supportive major in pharmacology, and my amazing career at a little company called propharm, and accept that your inferior information is correct.

and i suppose all of your “facts” and justifications are written in stone, so it has to be right. i apologize that i didnt get into the alpha and beta enzymes and the chemical stranding and the extractions of certain molecules and introductions of other molecular structures. and i apologize for not going into the different types of estrogen and certain conversions, and the testosterone synthesis and suppressions of such synthesis. and DHT conversions and other scientific babble.

i was only giving the basics so that he would have the IMPORTANT information needed to make an educated decision. gosh, what was i thinking!? im done arguing my FACTS and points over a meat-head website. ill let continuing work do the talk. so when you decide to pick a couple vials of test or deca, boldenone or trenbolone, or many other drugs i fabricate and break down everyday to make folks healthier, and meat-heads bigger, you can thank me in the back of your mind.[/quote]

I dont care, you are still a jackass!

Some people try to use fancy words to impress others, your words mean nothing. Go ahead and get into the alpha and beta enzymes and dht conversion, it’s irrelavent and so are you. You say that you work for propharm which is a software development company for pharmacies based out of canada, but you live in missouri! Then you mention that you make and develop steroids like trenbolone, in the usa, in missouri, to make people healthier, B.S. You might work as a janitor or sales rep for propharm, but I doubt it - your still twelve.

FWIW, I think dbol rocks. I like anything that you can take for 4 weeks, is usually cheap and easy to get, makes you feel great, doesn’t have really bad sides, and can still gives you SOME noticable permanant gains (it did for me anyway).

Boy this thread was an interesting read. Here’s my stance (if anyone cares?).

Deca is not the devil. It’s also not a godsend. It has its legitimate place in a cycle but I as most prefer EQ over it for several reasons.

I am a big fan of D-bol. I will be the first to admit that some level of caution must be taken with 17-AA drugs but after MUCH research I think the dangers are overhyped. The first time I used Naposims I gained 12 lbs in 3 weeks at 20mg/day. 4 weeks after my cycle ended I had kept almost 10 lbs which is pretty significant. I think D-bol has achieved it temporary gain status from newbies training their asses off on cycle but failing to use that intensity off cycle or worse not even continuing on a lifting regimen once usage stops.

If I were to choose between Test/Deca or Test/D-bol I personally would incorporate all three but for a first cycle I’d choose the Test/D-bol for reason

  1. Ease of use. As a first timer even if you have all your grounds covered using multiple injectables has more room for error and believe me Murphy’s Law doesn’t exclude steroids.

  2. D-bol will give better gains initially which yes may not be quite as permanent as the Deca but psychologically you’ll be more content which translates to better training and nutrition and the ability to stick to the cycle.

Either way it’s your choice and both will yield great results but since you asked our opinions you got them and those are mine.