T Nation

EQ

  1. Why does EQ make one hungry as a horse? Beginning week two and it has hit me.

  2. Define “increased vascularity?” This is a term I see over and over in conjunction with EQ and honestly I don’t know what it means.

appearance of more veins.

  1. Don’t know. I’ve never been that hungry though, it’s amazing.

  2. Increased vascularity just means you see more veins (if your BF is low enough).

Keep in mind the following when using EQ.

From “Ghost Dawg” T-mag Issue 280

“Chemical Muscle” tells us that using 600-800 milligrams per week of the popular steroid Equipoise (originally developed for horses) can lead to dangerously high red blood cell counts in as little as four to six weeks. Too many red blood cell platelets can lead to blood clots, strokes, and circulatory depreciation. Of course, this is true of most steroids.

With that info mind would one never go above say 500 mg a week regardless of how many cycles of EQ they have done? Wouldn’t it be less effective ie. the more cycles you have done generally the higher doseages required to get results.

I don’t think I’d ever go beyond 500mg a week again with EQ. Later during my cycle (which included 500mgs/week EQ)I had problems catching my breath. Couldn’t figure it out. Finally it got so bad that I would sometimes feel compelled to breath deep just sitting in a chair.

Then I read this about the circulation problems and it suddenly made perfect sense.

It affects different people different ways.

I ran my first cycle as you may remember with 500 mg of Eq and come to think of it I constantly woke up in the middle of the night with my arms asleep (pins and needles). It happened to me sometimes before I ever took EQ so I kinda dismissed it but now that I think of it the EQ was probably the reason it happened so often.

Wideguy,

You know what? I had the same thing where my hands (and sometimes arms) would fall asleep while I was sleeping. I forgot about that though.

Next time I’m just running 200mg/EQ/week. It’s still my favorite supplement.

i believe tren has run eq only cycles at over 1000mg a week if i’m not mistaken. maybe one could inquire how he felt.

From “Ghost Dawg” T-mag Issue 280

“Chemical Muscle” tells us that using 600-800 milligrams per week of the popular steroid Equipoise (originally developed for horses) can lead to dangerously high red blood cell counts in as little as four to six weeks. Too many red blood cell platelets can lead to blood clots, strokes, and circulatory depreciation. Of course, this is true of most steroids.

Wow, I want to shoot myself after reading this. Or maybe show this to my cell molecular biology professor. I bet he’d get a good laugh from this one!

Red blood cells are NOT platelets. Red blood cells are known as erythrocytes. Platelets are thrombocytes. Platelets are involved in the clotting process, but the process is so complex (which I care not to type here since this isn’t class), it’s absoultely rediculous to think you would just start “clotting” all over the place from increased platelets. (For the curious, prothrombin activator, prothrombin, thrombin, fibrinogen, fibrin, calcium ions, platelets, and injured tissue are all required to work in a chain reaction to clot. You can readily find this information all over the web). Strokes are from emboluses that get lodged in a brain blood vessel. This is a result of plaque build up on the vessel walls which can be freed and “float” through the system. High HDL comes to mind, NOT blood platelets.

I can’t believe this came from a magazine called “chemical muscle.” I think a proper name should be “quackery muscle.”

Macaijah

The info came from the Chemical Muscle column in the October 2003 Ironman Magazine.

Now if you would be so kind, please explain how the sides Wideguy and I experienced came about from the increase in erythrocytes.

My understanding (I’m not a biologist) was that the proliferation of red blood cells caused the blood to become more viscous (thicken) thereby impeding circulation.

Hearing about the side effects sounds scary. The increase in red blood cells sounds like one of the effects of EPO (Erythropoietin).
There have been a number of cases of endurance athletes dying from using EPO due to heart attacks. And a number suffered with strokes and increased risk of dehydration due to the increased vicosity of the blood.
At a guess i would think this makes it more difficult to pump blood around the body, hence the pins and needles in the extremities.
I imagine it would be very important to maintain you fluid levels while on EQ to keep your haemotocrit levels low/normal.

From 500 mg a week to 200 mg a week? Alright now I could be thinking wrong but if one has already used a steroid at a certain dose say 500 mg’s a week, then won’t it hardly have any effect if on the next cycle they use say 200 m’s a week.

Kat, someone will undoubtedly dump on me for saying this but, quite frankly, you should have the answers to basic questions like those BEFORE you shoot horse pharmaceuticals into your body.

“You’re gonna shoot your eye out Ralphie.”

Warhorse:

As you well know, androgens have unique side effects that sometimes cannot be explained. 1-Test, for example, sometimes causes lower back pain. We know how to treat it (lots of taurine or potassium), but we still don’t really know why it occurs. My attack against chemical muscle’s writeup was aimed at the biological falacies.

It is entirely possible that EQ does in fact increase RBC count. If this is the case, I suppose blood viscousity would increase. The side effects you and Wideguy experience could be caused by this or a number of different reasons. We really won’t know why until in depth tests are performed on people who use EQ. Until then, I guess speculation is our best friend. But I do agree on the conservative dosing with EQ–better to be safe than sorry.

Wideguy:

I think that’s bogus. That would be like saying if you took prescription pain meds for one surgery, OTC meds wouldn’t work post surgery for anything.

The whole thing about experienced lifters needing more drug comes (IMHO) from the fact that they have more LBM than they did after their first cycle. Steroids work on a mg/lbm or mg/bodyweight basis to some extent, and a lot of this “more is better for vets” lore comes from the fact that many people eat the same on their second cycle as they were on their first cycle, but they have 10-15 lbm’s more to support calorically. They then blame it on “not enough drug.”

Thanks. I was sort of starting to think I fucked myself. BTW I really love EQ.

While we are on the topic, I am starting week three of:

week 1-6: .75 MG Tren
500 MG Eq
200 MG Test

The ONLY reason I am doing the test is to keep my dick hard. I HATE test bloat.

Week 7-10 I’ll quite the tren and start primo.

I have no bad side effects other than an increased temperature and vivid dreams.

but what i want to know is…is your dick hard???

Kat:

Just keep a close eye on the sides while running that much EQ. With the long half-life of EQ, you’re not going to get out of the woods very fast if something happens.

Wideguy:

I love EQ too. I’m thinking getting a shirt that says: “I love EQ” or “Appetite by EQ” or “Equipoise, it’s not just for horses anymore.”

Cripes. P-Dog everywhere I go you’re talking Dick. Maybe you should change your name to “Dick-Dog” or something. Or maybe the “P” is for Penis?

:wink: