T Nation

EQ Only Cycle


#1

I'm not proposing a specific cycle, just trying to get a general discussion going. I know the general consensus on this board is Test should always be a base for a cycle. Also many members just don't like EQ. With that said, I've seen older posts on this board and other boards about EQ only cycles and the outlook on them was positive overall. Bumping those old threads seems silly though.

So, some questions I had were:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don't know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

  2. Would PCT be different for a EQ only cycle?

  3. Could some ancillary be run throughout the cycle to minimze suppression?

  4. What would probably be a safe cycle length regarding HCT issues? I understand that test contributes to higher HCT as well so someone running Test 500mg/wk and EQ600mg/wk would have issues going 16-20wks, so how would EQ only be different?


#2

This actually doesn’t really need to be discussed. I haven’t looked in to it but you would most likely be totally shut down or very close to it so you would have very low test levels which has a whole bunch of issues you wouldn’t want to deal with.

Long story short the general consensus of test as your base is that way for a very good reason.


#3

Run at least 200mg of Test for every 500mg of Eq. No science to back it but have seen it ran fine this way. If you go EQ alone shut down is pretty much all but guaranteed.


#4

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
I’m not proposing a specific cycle, just trying to get a general discussion going. I know the general consensus on this board is Test should always be a base for a cycle. Also many members just don’t like EQ. With that said, I’ve seen older posts on this board and other boards about EQ only cycles and the outlook on them was positive overall. Bumping those old threads seems silly though.

So, some questions I had were:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

  2. Would PCT be different for a EQ only cycle?

  3. Could some ancillary be run throughout the cycle to minimze suppression?

  4. What would probably be a safe cycle length regarding HCT issues? I understand that test contributes to higher HCT as well so someone running Test 500mg/wk and EQ600mg/wk would have issues going 16-20wks, so how would EQ only be different? [/quote]

-any additional androgen you ingest will decrease your own natural production. while some are worse (possibly due to stronger binding to the AR, increasing prolactin, estrogen, etc), they all do this, and within a week or so of use.

-HCG can help maintain testicular volume, so recovery can be a bit quicker in PCT. and an AI will keep estrogen levels in check, thereby making recovery quicker as well (estrogen is significantly more suppressive to the HPTA than testosterone, by the way). but nothing really prevents HPTA suppression…

-as far as HCT, i’ve never really seen much real data (clinical studies or bloodwork) that shows that EQ is significantly better than testosterone at raising red blood cells, etc… but i could be wrong.

here’s some info on PCT: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct


#5

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg


#6

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]

It’s the duration on the drug that leads to eventual shutdown. On test, it may happen after week 8. So, if you want to avoid full shutdown, don’t exceed 8 weeks of use.

However, since EQ is boldenone attached to the undeclynate ester, you would have to run it for at least 12-14 weeks to fully benefit from it.

Honestly, you would be better off with an anavar only cycle.


#7

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Honestly, you would be better off with an anavar only cycle.
[/quote]

LOL


#8

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]

Yeah sorry I typoed going to edit it now. I meant 500mg not 50mg. So say if he ran 1000mg of Eq then 400mg test. My mistake.


#9

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

why would you NOT be suppressed when taking in an additional androgen at doses larger than you naturally produce?
I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]


#10

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]

Yeah sorry I typoed going to edit it now. I meant 500mg not 50mg. So say if he ran 1000mg of Eq then 400mg test. My mistake.[/quote]
makes more sense, thanks


#11

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]

why would you NOT be suppressed when taking in an additional androgen at doses larger than you naturally produce?

[/quote]

I understand that you would be supressed on EQ. But, some post somewhere said you would not be fully shutdown, as if there was a difference. the exact wording was i believe “some suppression but not full shutdown”, which piqued my curiosity. Whereas running test at even a useless dose like 100mg/wk will of course cause full shutdown immediately.

Again I don’t know pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail. Although I did find on interesting article on ironmagazine which delved into it (mods prolly won’t let me link directly to it) titled Boldenone - realizing its true potential. The author recommends 1.5 - 3 grams per week (!!) with relatively low test dosage. Interesting.

Bottom line though, I understand EQ would be ideal to run with test. But I would prefer to run minimal test. So EQ only cycles came to mind


#12

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

  1. Some people said EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. What evidence is there for this and is it dose dependent (I figure it must be to some degree but I don’t know the pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail)? Is there a way you could get blood tests at different times on cycle to figure if your dose is suppressing you a little or shutting you down completely?

[/quote]

I’m hearing everything yall are saying and I respect everyones expertise on this board. But this ^ one question wasn’t fully answered. I specifically read on a forum somewhere that EQ causes some suppression but not full shutdown. Something about EQ being mostly anabolic and less androgenic. So I understand full shutdown happening with Tren and Deca but I was left with the impression that EQ was a little different for some reason. I really wondered what the deal was that.

Reed wouldn’t 200mg test per 50mg EQ be way too little EQ? So 1g test would be run with 250mg EQ? I keep reading EQ does nothing at less than 400mg
[/quote]

why would you NOT be suppressed when taking in an additional androgen at doses larger than you naturally produce?

[/quote]

I understand that you would be supressed on EQ. But, some post somewhere said you would not be fully shutdown, as if there was a difference. the exact wording was i believe “some suppression but not full shutdown”, which piqued my curiosity. Whereas running test at even a useless dose like 100mg/wk will of course cause full shutdown immediately.

Again I don’t know pharmacokinetics of EQ in detail. Although I did find on interesting article on ironmagazine which delved into it (mods prolly won’t let me link directly to it) titled Boldenone - realizing its true potential. The author recommends 1.5 - 3 grams per week (!!) with relatively low test dosage. Interesting.

Bottom line though, I understand EQ would be ideal to run with test. But I would prefer to run minimal test. So EQ only cycles came to mind
[/quote]

well, just because someone, somewhere said there is “minimal suppression” doesn’t mean it’s at all accurate (i’m still pissed of at the stupid “half-life” chart that i used to parrot to everybody).

the HPTA is suppressed by an intake of exogenous androgens (which i think you get). taking a bunch of EQ is likely to suppress your HPTA just like an approximate other amount of an androgen. one might assume because it doesn’t affect sex drive like Deca (which is largely a prolactin issue) doesn’t mean that the HPTA isn’t still suppressed.

another concern of a long-acting androgen, is the fact that one remains on it longer, thereby increase the duration of suppression.

the reduced aromatization as compared to testosterone is nice, but that’s not all that hard to manage with an AI.

since EQ binds weakly to the AR, one needs to use more EQ to see an approximate effect to testosterone, which again goes back to suppression, and the effect that a larger amount of androgens can cause.

and the other issue is cost, with EQ being quite a bit more expensive than test, at least where i am…

if you wanna try ti just to try, then go ahead. i just think you’re ignoring a lot of facts about steroids that you prolly already know…