What other PH/PS would you rate as being some of the better ones? I value your opinion in the steroid forum massively.
As for the original poster:
I ran a havoc (same as epistane) cycle not to long ago at 20/30/40/40 (30 on last day) and am actually half way through the PCT at present. I definatly gained a lot of mass and strength over the cycle... however Im not sure if I can attribute all of this to the havoc. My sleep and diet hadnt been spot on for a couple of months prior (uni can be a bitch) and during the cycle I went apeshit with sleep and ate a metric shit tonne.
My diet was pretty much: - 6 meals a day - 30-50g protein a meal - 3500-4500 calories roughly a day - No junk (sweets/icream etc.... although occasionally I might down a litre of chocolate milk if I was in a hurry).
Easily gained a comfortable 15lbs... a bit too much fat gain for my liking but its starting to come off with my PCT.
Strength... I had plateaued at a 102.5kg bench for about 2 months. By the end of the cycle I was conventional benching 110kg for 4 reps... 2 weeks into PCT today I just close gripped 115kg for 3...
Squat from 100kgx3 up to 4x115kg
Everything else was up.
One of the more interesting things for me was the fact that my dips/pullups increased in total volume (as well as my max) ever so slightly from week to week despite the large mass gain.
The training I was doing was WS4SB3 with the only difference being the RE work after the ME lift on ME upper day was switched to 4x6-10 with 3-4 min rest periods. Cardio went out the window but I tried to keep NEPA up with some mobility work and lots of walking/cyling around campus/town.
By the end of the cycle I was so damn chuffed I ordered another two bottles on the spot. Tempted to buy a third and run 2 cycles at 40/40/40/40 just to see what happens (biggest gains happened in the last two weeks which were dosed at 40mg).
Like I said 40 is the sweet spot for most users, this is not only reading logs, but the company rep actually stated this as his recommendation as well.
Its a good PH because its very effective, very clean, almost no sides, cheap, and dare I say it, not as risky or dangerous as 99% of the past stuff.
Not to mention its anti-e properties can be used to combat gyno in many cases.
The other decent PH's are in order of strength and sideeffects:
Superdrol, superdrol clones, mdrol, etc, methyl masterone, very good cutter and clean bulker, strongest currently on market. Many users report sides, I feel the sides are completely over exaggerated.
Pheraplex, pplex, etc, which is DMT, an oldschool designer steroid. Very simiar to superdrol in terms of gains, slightly less gains, slightly fewer sides. Agian sides are massively overstated. Main advantage is that it is a type I androgen, as where most PH's are type II.
(Havoc/epistane) are also type I.
Hdrol, halodrol clones, etc. It is Oral Turinabol, which is a straight up steroid sold and used commonly in cycles. Designed for the Russian athletics programs way back when.
Clean gains, strength, increased cardio and aerobic capacity, very good. Almost no sides.
Hdrol is my favorite PH on the market right now, I recommend it highly, its a very good drug, and almost all users are happy with it as both a bulker and a cutter.
Bold, 1,4AD, Bold 200, Bold 400 etc, Boldenone based, very very good, the only actual Prohormone by definition. All others are simply steroids disguised as something else
Bold converts to boldenone, it acts just like boldenone obviously, very clean, increased appetite, lean gains, decent strength.
Only problem is that it needs to be run at very high doses to actually be effective, I forget the conversion ratio, I posted it in waif's thread I believe, I think it was 80% or so, but a useful cycle would be quite expensive.
And a Boldenone only cycle will not produce huge mass or strength gains, although it will provide modest amounts of both.
Check the Prohormone sticky for more info.
It has most of the PH's still legal listed, just stay the hell away from anything progestin, dienolone, or progesterone based, no one really knows much about those compounds.
They are a recipie for weird problems that simple SERM PCT's cant deal with.
If your looking into your next cycle I highly recommend Hdrol, possibly even stacked with havoc/epistane. But certainly as a standalone it is good enough for anyone.
stacking would be a double meythl stack but for 6 weeks it should be fine if you dont drink, and havoc/epistane is not as toxic as most methyls.
Hdrol performs best at 75-100mg/day.
If stacking I would probably go 75mg hdrol / 30mg havoc.
Prohormones are stepping stones to real gear, dont forget that.
Want to open with I'm in no way an authority on prohormones, but I got absolutely nothing out of superdrol but an achey back and smaller nuts.
The best PH I've ever tried [or witnessed others try] hands down is omnevol, formerly sustevol. In a month I gained 9lbs got leaner and added a ton of strength across the board. My old workout partner[who ran it at the same time] went from 196 to 212, and in THREE WEEKS went from benching 275 for a max 3 to beching 315 for 3 AFTER hitting 275 for 8, then 295 for 3. Think about that. The last week [it's a 4 week cycle] he was scared he was getting too strong too fast and might tear something so he did 225x10x10 for bench.
My strength gains weren't quite as impressive, but I enjoyed what it gave me. All this was at the recommended 2 pills a day for 30 days. He and I also ran it at 1 pill a day with similar gains and WAY less sides. Sides were horrible-I mean horrible-lower back pumps and sensitive nuts.
Thanks for the heads up, but I know what's in it. Not saying I didn't get much from superdrol, saying I got absolutely no positive gains. None. I've ran two cycles of omnevol and have had no problems at all.
Way if you are looking to be a professional bodybuilder you cant get away with PH cycles, not before cirrhosis anyway. I think you would be better off spending part of your summer abroad, whether that be Mexico, Egypt, Japan, etc. where you could cycle legally and also continue your education. If I was still an undergrad it would certainly be what I would do.
6-7 weeks of hdrol and havoc would "basically" be an OT cycle, although I believe that hdrol does undergo a conversion of some kind to tbol, but has activity before converting as well, I cant really say.
The PH is not dosed 1:1, hence the usage of 100mg/day instead of say 50mg using real tbol.
The havoc/epistane is thrown in there simply because it is a type I, it is mild, and produces some strength gains and some nice clean gains as well. Also acts as an anti e so keeps you looking dry.
In terms of gains I would say 8 pounds lean and sustainable would be reasonable for someone who is not far above their genetic limit.
Test would give more strength, more mass, and better recovery. But probably would not be as dry.
Difficult for me to say exactly. I think 500 is a good estimate, mabey 400, but thats close enough so I digress.
To be fair the PH cycle is dosed higher androgen mg/week wise, than the test cycle, and still slightly less effective.
It does include a type I and II and is reasonably effective as a combination.
Depends on how well the user responds to test, and how well they respond to tbol. But I would say that it would be similar in results to a 500mg/week test only cycle, short ester, or front loaded, and run for 8 weeks.
You'd likely get 10-12 pretty easily with the test so 25-50% better gains, and would see a little better reduction in bodyfat if cutting or recomping.
It would be so much cheaper to run test, youd need like 2-3 bottles of hdrol at 30 bucks each, and atleast 2 bottles of havoc at 30 bucks each. Then another 50-60 for the SERM.
170-250 bucks depending on how many tabs are in one bottle of hdrol (I forget).
The comparable test cycle is half that.
OT is expensive and hard to find, Hdrol not so much, and hdrol is backed by a real company, not an UGL. I think it would be a good replacement if one can not acquire reputable OT for a real cycle.
So would the gains be similar, yes, would it be worth it, probably not.
Is it an option for people unwilling or unable to use real gear, yes.
Is it as good, no, but its close. Its about 65% as good as the real thing and alot more costly.
Legal though, always a plus.
I would prefer to stack test with hdrol, rather than mixing it with another PH.
Its basically the only PH I would ever use, simply because legit tbol is not cheap nor easy to aquire.
I can see that. Whatever they did it works like no other. For the record, I only used when trying to get "big". My goals have changed so I won't use anything like that for a long while. You've been really helpful pointing all this stuff out man, not just to me but everybody. Thanks.
Have not noticed so much as in weight training but my energy is through the roof. After a leg workout last night(where i have doubled my volume of training) i felt like going back to the gym 3 hours later. At work today we unload 40 foot and 20 foot containers.Well this usually makes me very tired but after i was finished i felt great,even had spare energy.
Will report back in a week and give updates on training and weight.