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Epistane/Havoc Trial

I’ll be doing a cycle of Epistane and will log my results. I’m doing a 4 week cycle and have on-cycle support supplements as well as my PCT supps on hand for when the time comes.

I’ve got Nolva, Inhibit-E, and TRIBEX Gold for PCT. I think that’s enough, but I’m not sure. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.

One bottle of Epistane
A cycle’s worth of Milk Thistle
A cycle’s worth of a vitamin B-12 supp

Inhibit-E (90 caps)
TRIBEX Gold (Trib) 50 pills (3 weeks worth)
Tamoxifen Citrate 25mg/ml 60ml

I’m looking at:

Week 1 - dose every day (7 days) at 10, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20
Week 2 - dose every day at 30
Week 3 - dose every day at 30
Week 4 - dose every day at 40
Weeks 5 - Nolva and Inhibit-E + Trib
How long should I run PCT?

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
I’ll be doing a cycle of Epistane and will log my results. I’m doing a 4 week cycle and have on-cycle support supplements as well as my PCT supps on hand for when the time comes.

I’ve got Nolva, Inhibit-E, and TRIBEX Gold for PCT. I think that’s enough, but I’m not sure. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.

One bottle of Epistane
A cycle’s worth of Milk Thistle
A cycle’s worth of a vitamin B-12 supp

Inhibit-E (90 caps)
TRIBEX Gold (Trib) 50 pills (3 weeks worth)
Tamoxifen Citrate 25mg/ml 60ml

I’m looking at:

Week 1 - dose every day (7 days) at 10, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20
Week 2 - dose every day at 30
Week 3 - dose every day at 30
Week 4 - dose every day at 40
Weeks 5 - Nolva and Inhibit-E + Trib
How long should I run PCT?
[/quote]

I did havoc a couple months ago. In 4 weeks i gained 15 pounds, all of which I kept. I used milk thistle and hawthorn berry during cycle. My dosing was the same as yours except I started with 20 mgs instead of 10 and also the last 3 days i used 50 mgs (so I wouldnt have any remaining pills).

I did have nolva, but never used it. There were ZERO side effects on havoc and it is an anti-estrogen in itself. So for me, nolva was not necessary.

All in all i felt normal on cycle, But i was able to put up significantly more weight every week and added some nice weight. Although did not notice any gains after the 3rd week, which i hear that from alot of people

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

       Playmaker, looks like you had some nice results.

       Dhuge, yeah like playmaker said, this compound is based around a japanese steroid that was used initially as an anti-e drug. So you may have overkill if anything in your pct.

I would still use the Nolva, but just for getting your test going a bit, as it’s been effective to a degree for that as well as it’s anti-e properties. You won’t need it for any kind of estrogen blocking most likely, and I don’t think I would use that Inhibit E shit. Toss that shit.

        Nolva, TRIBEX. good to go.
      Just my opinion of course.
         best, ToneBone[/quote]

Thanks for the replies, guys. A 3-week PCT is what I’ll do and I wont take high doses of Nolva in that time anyway. I’ll probably do a week at 30mg then 20 from then on.

I’m curious to see how i react to this stuff, and I’ve also been curious to try the much-maligned Anabolic Xtreme stack (hyperdrol, mass fx, and retain) at some point after my Epistane and PCT cycle.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Thanks for the replies, guys. A 3-week PCT is what I’ll do and I wont take high doses of Nolva in that time anyway. I’ll probably do a week at 30mg then 20 from then on.

I’m curious to see how i react to this stuff, and I’ve also been curious to try the much-maligned Anabolic Xtreme stack (hyperdrol, mass fx, and retain) at some point after my Epistane and PCT cycle.
Thanks.

     Hey huge, save your money for Anabolic Extremes new 3AD. It's some new shit, you might want to check it out, any time now it should be available. I personally am not into the otc stuff too much anymore, but there's quite a buzz goin around about it...google it and you'll see it.
           later bud,
            
            TB

[/quote]
I wouldn’t be into the OTC stuff, except while I live at home for my senior year at Penn State, my parents will not tolerate anything illegal coming to the doorstep. Once I’m on my own, things may be a lot different (better, depending on how you view it)…

I’m sure you understand. :wink:

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

         Got ya...
    the epistane should be pretty good from what I've heard. Like I said, you might want to check out that new one too later..3AD. 
        You picked a safe one though which should give some nice gains as well. Hope to see/hear of some good results.
            adios,[/quote]

Thanks man.

The only thing about 3-AD from Anabolic Xtreme is the fact that it’s not for sale yet (will be out this week)! Also, Ergopharm makes 11-OXO which is almost identical to 3-AD, but less expensive. I said ALMOST identical; apparently 11-OXO lacks 3-ADs “absorption mechanism” which makes 3-AD more potent than 11-OXO, but I’m not sure.

It might be a good thing to stack one of those two products with Epistane, but I wouldn’t “run it” solo or instead of other stuff.

Also, 3-AD and 11-OXO seem to be geared more towards visceral fat loss than they do lean mass gains. It might be better suited for a cutting cycle, along with Epistane, than for bulking up.

Stuff to watch and read about over the next few months, for sure. I’ll be following some 3-AD logs as they begin to be posted through July.

I’ll post here with my Epistane experiences, as well.

Wish me luck!

Oh, i’m also going to stack Carbolin 19 with my Epistane cycle.

Jesus…talk about a major chunk of change on supplements…

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:

Jesus…talk about a major chunk of change on supplements…[/quote]

that you could have used to buy some test with. that you know would produce results

Is 11-oxo even anything to see good results with? I have never heard about this one, just somewhat familiar with 6-oxo and 1-ad by ergopharm.

Eat a TON while on epistane, the results will be amazing.

[quote]playmaker08 wrote:
Is 11-oxo even anything to see good results with? I have never heard about this one, just somewhat familiar with 6-oxo and 1-ad by ergopharm.

Eat a TON while on epistane, the results will be amazing.[/quote]

Will do!

And as for the Test…I wish I could get away with it right now, but I can’t. As it is, I’m going to do the best I can with a legal (only just) alternative. It might not produce the same results that Test would, but most Epi users claim that they get pretty darn good gains with very minimal sides, if any.

[quote]playmaker08 wrote:
Is 11-oxo even anything to see good results with? I have never heard about this one, just somewhat familiar with 6-oxo and 1-ad by ergopharm.

[/quote]

Look at the trial logs that people have posted about 3-AD and then there are also some 11-OXO logs, too. It seems that a lot of people are getting some pretty good results, as far as leaning out and hardening up. I’m skeptical, but the price for 11-OXO isn’t bad, if you want to find out.

I may check it out at some point, but don’t have the money to do so, as of now.

Cycle begins Wednesday of this week.

Same exact product, by two different companies. Will use Havoc for first 4 weeks, then IBE’s Epistane for the next 4. (20, 30, 30, 40) (30, 30, 40, 40)

PCT for 4 weeks. (40/30/30/20)

PCT Stack: Nolvadex, Carbolin 19, some cortisol reduction agent, TRIBEX.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Cycle begins Wednesday of this week.

Same exact product, by two different companies. Will use Havoc for first 4 weeks, then IBE’s Epistane for the next 4. (20, 30, 30, 40) (30, 30, 40, 40)

PCT for 4 weeks. (40/30/30/20)

PCT Stack: Nolvadex, Carbolin 19, some cortisol reduction agent, TRIBEX.

           Hey looks good huge,

why not run both the same though?
30,30,40,40…then you can test each against each other…
Just a thought…
good to go bro…
TB

[/quote]I would do that, but for some reason most of the logs of Epistane show people going from 10 mg the first day, then to 20mg where they stay for a week before bumping to 30mg. I just want to play it safe, for now, as I’m relatively new to this kind of thing.

I’m sure the difference between products is mainly in name, and has little or nothing to do with efficacy.

good luck bro, and eat.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

       Ok, sounds good bro.

Hey I’m sure it will be a nice alternative to gear, given your situation and all. I will be looking for your log and appreciate the keeping of said log for everyone.

I’m doing great on the Anabolic Diet for bodybuilders now, just loving it. Gettin leaner and the workouts are great, and gaining some muscle and strength just like I was on some mild/decent gear. shits pretty amazing.

       anyhow, off to hamstrings and calves now. Have a good one, and get after it tomorrow! 
           ToneBone[/quote]

The Anabolic Diet is intriguing and is something I’ll look into about 5-6 months from now when I go to cut (in the winter…lol). I’m glad to hear it’s going well.

Anyway, I’m going to post in this thread whenever I have an update. I won’t post my log here, per se, but I will post a link to my own blog (which is much more organized and visually appealing). Also, the whole “posting every day about every little thing” is kind of annoying, so I’ll keep it to a few times a week or as major changes/events occur.

Dhuge

Link:

web.mac.com/chrisd7/iWeb/Site/Havoc%20Blog/Havoc%20Blog.html

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Link:

web.mac.com/chrisd7/iWeb/Site/Havoc%20Blog/Havoc%20Blog.html

     Yeah Dhuge...IT's wednesday baby! Like Big John Mcarthy says..."Let's get it on!" 

      Lol,..hey man have a great workout today bro, I got delts/traps to do. I broke under 190 this morning with a morning weight of 188...
    Yeah this way of eating and manipulating your test, and growth hormone is awesome. It actually does what it's supposed to do. 
          cheers Mr. Havoc-huge
         ToneBone
p.s. I tried to get to that link with no success on google..[/quote]

http://web.mac.com/chrisd7

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

           Chris,

Just wanted to say that I was very impressed with your web page/blog, and also just where your head/body is at the age of 21. You are a fine example for your generation, and I applaud you and your efforts. Your cardio sounds superb as does your overall work/mind ethics.

You are going to have a great life ahead of you with where you are at now.
Great job,
best, Tony[/quote]

Wow, Tony, I really appreciate that comment. What a feel-good post! haha

Anyway, I hope that I’m doing an “okay thing” here with this supplement. I know that it is a step above natural, and though it is legal, it still feels a bit like cheating and kind of wrong. I can’t say that I feel justified, but I do feel LESS bad about because I used to be a really overweight kid.

I’ve talked at length about my FFB status on T-Nation before, and this place has given me such a new lease on life; with all of the information, training tips, and the awesome support and camaraderie of the members here.

I’m doing my best to transform my body, while at the same time keeping a good head on my shoulders. I just don’t want my “use” to reduce my character.

And I don’t hold the usage of drugs like these against anyone else, obviously, but it is technically illegal (as is my PCT drug - Nolvadex), because I do feel like it’s sort of the honorable Robin-hood virtue; we’re working hard as hell and we aren’t hurting anyone else.

Interesting thread Chris. I’m really curious how this stuff works. Thanks for being the guinea pig. If it works I’ll be next.

Second day - not too much to report except that the workout I had was pretty nice. I took my first dose at 20 mg, about an hour before I lifted, had 5-8 grams of creatine in my post workout drink.

I’m using one of Boris Sheiko’s programs. Taxing stuff but very promising, I think.

extremefitness.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-20790.html

Today was day one on that program:

In base (preparation) period by coach Boris Sheiko (Russia)

(50% 5X1 �?? where: 50% - percentage of maximum; 5 �?? reps; 1 - sets)

1 WEEK

1 day (Monday)

1.Bench press 50% 5Ð¥1,60% 4Ð¥2,70% 3Ð¥2,75% 3Ð¥5.(34)
2.Squat 50% 5Ð¥1,60% 5Ð¥2,70% 5Ð¥5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Ð¥1,60% 6Ð¥2,65% 6Ð¥4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells �??flies�??10Х5.
5.�??Good mornings�?? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 116 lifts

thats an interesting routine.

I’m gonna feel bad for you on friday though. 66 lifts on the bench? wow.

[quote]firestanggt wrote:
thats an interesting routine.

I’m gonna feel bad for you on friday though. 66 lifts on the bench? wow.[/quote]

It’s heavy and heavy volume. I like that shit. I need Cissus. I need sleep. I need food. hahah

Anyway, it’s these kinds of programs that really get me up in the morning. 66 lifts? That’s insane…but…

Peter La Fleur: [after Patches hits Justin in the face with a wrench] Yeah, uh, Patches… are you sure that this is completely necessary?
Patches O’Houlihan: Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine?
Peter La Fleur: Probably not.
Patches O’Houlihan: No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.
Peter La Fleur: …Okay.