Epi with PCT

a 6 week cycle isn’t horribly suppressive, so a 6 week PCT isn’t absolutely necessary, but it will help ensure that you’ve recovered fully.

ralox isn’t all that great for PCT, though. you could run Nolva (20 mg) for 6 weeks, and run Aromasin (25 mg) for 5 weeks (stop a week prior to Nolva). or swap the Ralox (60 mg) for Nolva… yeah, it won’t bump up your T levels as much, but it’ll help control the gyno…

i’ve been digging into Albuterol a lot lately, so i think it’s interesting you brought that up.

from what i understand, since albuterol has a much faster half-life, receptor down-regulation can be avoided by dosing 1-2 times a day. maybe once in the morning, and pre-workout?

My main thing is the gyno, since i’ve had it before and had it surgically removed (but I believe some was left over from the surgery). But of course I do want to keep what I gained. Maybe I should do Nolva/Aromasin and if I get any feeling of gyno, then switch to ralox immediately? I know about Letro too…but I wouldn’t think I would have the need for letro for this particular cycle.

Yes, albuterol is pretty interesting. I’ve even read that it’ll increase your endurance and I am an endurance athlete. I was thinking of maybe using albuterol for my races. Start taking it daily 1 week before my race @4mg 3x/day and cycle off of it after race day.

^yeah, i find the actual ergogenic effect interesting, too. i think one could possibly use it pre-workout, and never really have to worry too much about the body adapting to it… i’ve never used clen, but i heard it’s not too fun to workout on.

i used some research albuterol a while back, and i used 5mg/day in the morning for a couple weeks. it was pretty smooth, but not much of a real stimulant. i’d compare it to caffeine, but a little milder…i didn’t track my bodyfat then, but i doubt once a day dosing would lead to much fat loss.

i believe albuterol elevates metabolic rate maybe only a couple %, but it does shift the preferred fuel source towards fat. so it might not jack up the metabolism as much, but it does make it burn more fat, which is really what one would want, and it seems to make workouts better, too.

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^yeah, i find the actual ergogenic effect interesting, too. i think one could possibly use it pre-workout, and never really have to worry too much about the body adapting to it… i’ve never used clen, but i heard it’s not too fun to workout on.

i used some research albuterol a while back, and i used 5mg/day in the morning for a couple weeks. it was pretty smooth, but not much of a real stimulant. i’d compare it to caffeine, but a little milder…i didn’t track my bodyfat then, but i doubt once a day dosing would lead to much fat loss.

i believe albuterol elevates metabolic rate maybe only a couple %, but it does shift the preferred fuel source towards fat. so it might not jack up the metabolism as much, but it does make it burn more fat, which is really what one would want, and it seems to make workouts better, too.[/quote]

working out on clen isn’t that bad. Apart from the pain in my hands I actually quite like the feeling of being on clen. Wakes you up!

^interesting…

Clen seems great for what it is supposed to do, but it seems there are too many negatives associated with using Clen. Albuterol seems to be the way to go for safety reasons, while still being pretty effective. I used it years ago when honestly I didn’t really know what I was doing. This time around I will mess around with the dosages and see how I respond to it. Since I ride my road bike (25+ miles EoD), and I ride my mountain bike on the weekends at around 8,000ft elevation (I live at sea level), i’ll be able to test what kind of positive effect albuterol will have on my energy and endurance levels.

Albuterol and Keto has been ordered, along with aromasin for my pct. Should be here in another day or two. Today was another day of feeling kinda lethargic. In the morning i just did NOT want to get out of bed even though in my head I kept saying get up!!! I forced myself to get up and make breakfast (egg whites and oatmeal). That seemed to fix things. Not only was I lazy and tired but my vision was kinda blurry. Maybe I was just tired from laying sod ALL day the day before in the sun and only getting like 5 hours of sleep due to the epi.

Ok so a few things, for anyone that cares. In 2 days I will complete week 4. I must say that I don’t know what to think about this particular epi. Everything seemed great the first two week (probably placebo) but when I started week 3 and up until now, i’m not sure if anything is happening.

Strength didn’t go up a whole lot, i’m not really feeling lethargic at all from the estrogen drop. Pumps have not been great lately during my work outs. My joints dont ache, i even stopped taking the joint support supplement. I’m lifting a lot and putting in about 150 miles per week on my road bike, I would think that at least my joint would ache, but nothing. Some people say that EPI is hit or miss with people, but i believe it’s more like bunk batch or not bunk batch.

I did 30/40/40/40. I ordered a different EPI (LGI) since i’m about to run out of this bottle (Vital Labs) and run it for the next 2 weeks. Should I even bother, or should I just go into PCT now?

On top of that, I have been using the albuterol a few times. I feel that it does help with endurance and breathing feels better but other than that I dont “feel” anything. I started with 4mg and now im using 6mg. I’ve heard of people using 8mg 3x/day, so I might have to go up to 8mg?

It’s almost as if you should’ve run it at 60mg a day. Gee, wouldn’t it have been nice if an experienced epi user had told you that from the beginning.

I suppose so. Live and learn. I suppose I could bump it up to 60mg starting today, so I’ll get these next 2 weeks at 60mg. Any problem going 8 weeks on epi? 6 weeks seemed long enough, but can I go 8?

[quote]squier wrote:
I suppose so. Live and learn. I suppose I could bump it up to 60mg starting today, so I’ll get these next 2 weeks at 60mg. Any problem going 8 weeks on epi? 6 weeks seemed long enough, but can I go 8?[/quote]

If you plan to go beyond 6 weeks, and up the dose, I would get your liver enzyme values checked first. Liver damage is the main concern with running a 17a methylated oral longer than 4-6 weeks. If the numbers look good, go for it.

Thanks guys. OK I’m guessing tudca is the way to go. 250mg or 500mg daily?

I’ll get them checked out asap. How much would that run me? So I know more or less what I should pay.

to be honest mate, I’d just PCT and chalk this one up as a learning experience.

Hopefully now you see why we always recommend injectable test instead of oral only/PH only cycles.

Yes I see. I must do research on which test to go with for say a 6 to 8 week cycle then.

[quote]squier wrote:
Yes I see. I must do research on which test to go with for say a 6 to 8 week cycle then.[/quote]

why only 6-8 weeks?

Idk…I guess that’s what I’m comfortable with? I know people usually stack but I’d like to try out a test only cycle first.

Don’t bash me too hard but here it goes.

Week 1-8 test prop 100mg EoD
Week 1-8 aromasin 25mg/day

Pct:
Nolva 20mg/day
Aromasin 25mg/day
I’ll stop the nolva 1 week after I stop the aromasin.

So a few things im not sure about.

Is hcg necessary and how/when do you dose it for this cycle?

How long after last pin do I start with pct? Since it’s prop, is it only 1 week? Or 2?

Keep taking the aromasin during the pct wait period? I’m sure the answer to that is yes.

How long of a pct? 8 weeks correct?

What can you recommend that I use during pct other than serm/ai. DAA? Etc.

If gyno symptoms occur, start taking nolva 20mg/day? Do I just keep taking it til the very end of pct?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be clear on everything.

That actually looks pretty good lol.

  • aromasin 25mg EOD. Nolva 10mg ED.

  • HCG is not a must but if you want a faster recovery, do 250iu 2x a week starting on week 2. Do not run it into PCT.

  • start PCT 3 days after last pin. If you’re anal about active lives and wasting your SERM, start 6 days after. Run it for 4 weeks. Without hcg I would suggest up to 6 weeks.

OK thanks dt79!

[quote]dt79 wrote:
That actually looks pretty good lol.

  • aromasin 25mg EOD. Nolva 10mg ED.

  • HCG is not a must but if you want a faster recovery, do 250iu 2x a week starting on week 2. Do not run it into PCT.

  • start PCT 3 days after last pin. If you’re anal about active lives and wasting your SERM, start 6 days after. Run it for 4 weeks. Without hcg I would suggest up to 6 weeks.[/quote]

Ok, aromasin EoD from day one to the end of pct.

Nolva 10mg/day if gyno symptoms occur?, but 20mg/day during pct.

3 days after last pin sounds good to me.

Hcg starting week 2, got it.

[quote]squier wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
That actually looks pretty good lol.

  • aromasin 25mg EOD. Nolva 10mg ED.

  • HCG is not a must but if you want a faster recovery, do 250iu 2x a week starting on week 2. Do not run it into PCT.

  • start PCT 3 days after last pin. If you’re anal about active lives and wasting your SERM, start 6 days after. Run it for 4 weeks. Without hcg I would suggest up to 6 weeks.[/quote]

Ok, aromasin EoD from day one to the end of pct.

Nolva 10mg/day if gyno symptoms occur?, but 20mg/day during pct.

3 days after last pin sounds good to me.

Hcg starting week 2, got it.

[/quote]

Nolva 10mg ed for gyno prevention. Go up to 20mg if symptoms appear.

Are you starting this cycle immediately? If your epi wasn’t bunk you may still have some minor suppression.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]squier wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
That actually looks pretty good lol.

  • aromasin 25mg EOD. Nolva 10mg ED.

  • HCG is not a must but if you want a faster recovery, do 250iu 2x a week starting on week 2. Do not run it into PCT.

  • start PCT 3 days after last pin. If you’re anal about active lives and wasting your SERM, start 6 days after. Run it for 4 weeks. Without hcg I would suggest up to 6 weeks.[/quote]

Ok, aromasin EoD from day one to the end of pct.

Nolva 10mg/day if gyno symptoms occur?, but 20mg/day during pct.

3 days after last pin sounds good to me.

Hcg starting week 2, got it.

[/quote]

Nolva 10mg ed for gyno prevention. Go up to 20mg if symptoms appear.

Are you starting this cycle immediately? If your epi wasn’t bunk you may still have some minor suppression.
[/quote]

Ooh ok. Nice and clear on the nolva dosing now.

No, not starting right away. I was going to start the epi pct today. Only did 4 weeks total of epi. I was going to do 2 more weeks at 60mg but I came down with a cold and figured it wouldn’t be worth it to do the last 2 weeks at 60mg. I’m guessing I wouldn’t need too long of a pct though. My balls don’t feel as if they shrunk at all (I took tren caps years ago and that made my balls tiny and with zero sex drive). My sex drive this time around didn’t change much. I wasn’t as eager to have sex but when I did, I performed just fine. I had zero joint pain too. That’s what’s making me think it was either bunk or as yogi would say, I didn’t dose high enough