T Nation

Ephedrine Side Effects?

Pharma
#1

Hi Guy’s I bought some epedrine 8mg’s a pill at the health food store.I took 24mg’s,that’s 3-pill’s and a cup of large coffee prior to my chest workout. I was doing bench a feeling strong.The eped and coffee made the weight’s feel lighter.I was 15min’s into the workout and doing my 2-rep heavy set,but i was starting to feel Stoned,(Scarry Feeling) I did my set and when i got up i felt like i was about to pass out.I cut the workout-off and went to the shower’s.

    My question is,is that what epedrine doe's,or was that an O.D. type affect. I an sensitive to central nervious system stimulent's,but i didn't think the EC-stack was that powerful.                                                                                       I don't know if this is relevent,but im on Suboxone. thank's john
#2

Why are you on suboxone? Trying to kick a heroin addiction?

The first couple of days of an EC stack I sometimes get lightheaded on heavy lifts. Almost like I stood up too fast and all the blood rushed from my head. Stops after a day or two.

#3

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Hi Guy’s I bought some epedrine 8mg’s a pill at the health food store.I took 24mg’s,that’s 3-pill’s and a cup of large coffee prior to my chest workout. I was doing bench a feeling strong.The eped and coffee made the weight’s feel lighter.I was 15min’s into the workout and doing my 2-rep heavy set,but i was starting to feel Stoned,(Scarry Feeling) I did my set and when i got up i felt like i was about to pass out.I cut the workout-off and went to the shower’s.

    My question is,is that what epedrine doe's,or was that an O.D. type affect. I an sensitive to central nervious system stimulent's,but i didn't think the EC-stack was that powerful.                                                                                       I don't know if this is relevent,but im on Suboxone. thank's john[/quote]

haha, johnny know-it-all asking for advice on ephedrine in a steroids forum. Kuh-lassic.

#4

That isn’t a high dose of ephed. Personally, I find ephedrine to be very mild. I’ve taken over triple that (not for lifting) without any ill effect, but I handle stimulants very well. High doses of strong stimulants can make you feel lightheaded or dizzy. Stronger doses can cause heart palpitations. Not fun. These effects seem to be stronger when you are engaged in heavy physical activity. That said, you were still on a low dose.

Suboxone is also a psychoactive drug, and I suspect that the combination of subjective effects of the different psychoactives you ingested is responsible. Considering the low dose taken, it is likely not dangerous, unless you have other prescription/nonprescription drugs or medical conditions that would suggest otherwise. If that’s the case, I would do a controlled trial with ephed and caffeine in a safe setting where I could get help if needed, in order to test that hypothesis.

#5

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Hi Guy’s I bought some epedrine 8mg’s a pill at the health food store.I took 24mg’s,that’s 3-pill’s and a cup of large coffee prior to my chest workout. I was doing bench a feeling strong.The eped and coffee made the weight’s feel lighter.I was 15min’s into the workout and doing my 2-rep heavy set,but i was starting to feel Stoned,(Scarry Feeling) I did my set and when i got up i felt like i was about to pass out.I cut the workout-off and went to the shower’s.

    My question is,is that what epedrine doe's,or was that an O.D. type affect. I an sensitive to central nervious system stimulent's,but i didn't think the EC-stack was that powerful.                                                                                       I don't know if this is relevent,but im on Suboxone. thank's john[/quote]

Johnny from Canada, you brought some memories back with your purchase of ephedrine at a Canadian health food store. About a year and a half ago I bought the same 8 mg tabs in Montreal, and not realizing that ephedrine is no longer sold in the USA (at least not in that form), and importation itself is frowned upon, I succesfully brought back 10 bottles over the border and into the US (to try them as part of an ECA fat loss stack, respectively). An interesting trial run I had with those to say the least.

Anyway, here is my limited experience and advice:

Since I was using them as part of an EC stack (I skipped the aspirin based on forum advice), I took a 200 mg caffeine tab + three 8 mg ephedrine tabs 3-4 times a day for about two months (though I never will do that again, as the possible adrenal fatigue and crash was unforgivable). I can remember that my first dose gave me the same super-charged workout, minus the potential side effects that you mentioned, although my pulse rate definitely felt up. I thought that I was going to literally break some of the equipment, the workout was that good. As time went on however, that feeling slowly leveled off, and did less and less in terms of providing an insanely intense workout.

Fast forward to today, and here is what I learned and recommend from my experience:

(1) Personally, I’m not super sensitive to caffeine at all, but ephedrine and caffeine is a different animal for me. I may have gotten away with a lesser dose than 24 mg, so next time I suggest that you start with a single 8 mg tab only (with your coffee or caffeine tab), and see how you respond. Your sweet spot may be one or two tabs, and over time, you could up that to three or more (if need be).

(2) I used it for dieting, and as such I was taking 24 mg several (sometimes 4) times a day. It worked, and worked well, but the after effects were not worth it. In hindsight, I believe that I could have gotten the same results with a diet tweek here and there, though maybe it would have taken me a little while longer to achieve my aforementioned results. So while the EC fat loss stack is history for me, I may used it again ONLY for a preworkout boost, if I’m not working out too late in the day.

(3) Cycling ephedrine may be helpful as well, even if you are strictly using it as a workout stimulant (preferably with caffeine), so you never risk becoming desensitized to the dosing and frequency. For those that are sensitive to it, all the more reason; if you are going for an extra grueling workout or personal best in a lift, that may be the right occassion. (For me, I’m going to use a cautious approach and never use it more than twice a week for about a month or so, as that should suffice.)

Hope that helps, good luck with your regimen.

#6

I’d second the recommendation to take one tab with your caffeine, see how it affects you and up the dosage when you need to. I’ve never had any issues with EC stacked but know several people who have to split their 25mg tabs in half for a while starting out. Everyone’s different. Good luck.

#7

[quote]incredulous wrote:
I’d second the recommendation to take one tab with your caffeine, see how it affects you and up the dosage when you need to. I’ve never had any issues with EC stacked but know several people who have to split their 25mg tabs in half for a while starting out. Everyone’s different. Good luck. [/quote]

Agreed. And to be fair (and as you pointed out), very few people can’t tolerate a EC/ECA stack, it’s usually a matter of proper “dosing”.

The bad part that truly sucks is when it’s used frequently throughout the day, for months at a time, and then you come completely off. That’s what a fat loss stack like that is usually run for in terms of duration (one or two or more months straight at a time). It’s like going 80 mph on a smoothly paved highway and then jumping onto a pot hole filled dirt road…just brutal! (Although I imagine that you could ease on the brake slightly, and taper your dose down to minimize this negative effect. But as you mentioned, and regardless of which method is used, each person will respond differently.)

#8

[quote]iammikewatts wrote:
Why are you on suboxone? Trying to kick a heroin addiction?

The first couple of days of an EC stack I sometimes get lightheaded on heavy lifts. Almost like I stood up too fast and all the blood rushed from my head. Stops after a day or two.[/quote]
I don’t know if your being Rude? In regard’s to that heroin statement,but to answer your question.I was on percocet as a result of 2-back operation’s and a left hip resurfacing.

I started taking percocet’s in 1990 after a work place trucking accident.The short acting narcotic’s like percocet result in a tolerance,and subsequent higher and higher of a dose.I missed the oxycontin epidemic,as a result of being on methadone.Methadone is used as a longterm pain medication.

Then i switched to suboxone as it doesent give you any euphoria.thanks for your response.This epedrine was not a nice feeling.Like you said after my heavy bench i thought i was going to pass-out.or worse go into a convulsion. thank’s john

#9

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Hi Guy’s I bought some epedrine 8mg’s a pill at the health food store.I took 24mg’s,that’s 3-pill’s and a cup of large coffee prior to my chest workout. I was doing bench a feeling strong.The eped and coffee made the weight’s feel lighter.I was 15min’s into the workout and doing my 2-rep heavy set,but i was starting to feel Stoned,(Scarry Feeling) I did my set and when i got up i felt like i was about to pass out.I cut the workout-off and went to the shower’s.

    My question is,is that what epedrine doe's,or was that an O.D. type affect. I an sensitive to central nervious system stimulent's,but i didn't think the EC-stack was that powerful.                                                                                       I don't know if this is relevent,but im on Suboxone. thank's john[/quote]

haha, johnny know-it-all asking for advice on ephedrine in a steroids forum. Kuh-lassic. [/quote]
Hey Toby.I posted it in the Suppliment’s category.Blame the people who regulate this forum.

Listen Toby-Boy i not am know it all.Im just been around longer than you!!!My friend let’s keep this conversation mature.What good does being condesending to another person do? Treat people with the respect you would like?Have a good day Toby. john

#10

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
That isn’t a high dose of ephed. Personally, I find ephedrine to be very mild. I’ve taken over triple that (not for lifting) without any ill effect, but I handle stimulants very well. High doses of strong stimulants can make you feel lightheaded or dizzy. Stronger doses can cause heart palpitations. Not fun. These effects seem to be stronger when you are engaged in heavy physical activity. That said, you were still on a low dose.

Suboxone is also a psychoactive drug, and I suspect that the combination of subjective effects of the different psychoactives you ingested is responsible. Considering the low dose taken, it is likely not dangerous, unless you have other prescription/nonprescription drugs or medical conditions that would suggest otherwise. If that’s the case, I would do a controlled trial with ephed and caffeine in a safe setting where I could get help if needed, in order to test that hypothesis.[/quote]
Thank-you.I asked my pharmacist and she said.I likely have an aversion to stimulent’s.I did 8mg’s with coffee the day after and i got a similar reaction,but with less intensity.I was thinking like you,that the suboxone@8mg’s combined and i got some kind of synergistic reaction,but the pharmacist think’s it was a result of combining the Ehedrine/caffeine.fuck bro it was quite scarry.

I felt like i was going to have a convulsion.I have an anziety disorder .I used to suffer from panic-attack’s. thank-you for your concern john

#11

[quote]MikeManos wrote:

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Hi Guy’s I bought some epedrine 8mg’s a pill at the health food store.I took 24mg’s,that’s 3-pill’s and a cup of large coffee prior to my chest workout. I was doing bench a feeling strong.The eped and coffee made the weight’s feel lighter.I was 15min’s into the workout and doing my 2-rep heavy set,but i was starting to feel Stoned,(Scarry Feeling) I did my set and when i got up i felt like i was about to pass out.I cut the workout-off and went to the shower’s.

    My question is,is that what epedrine doe's,or was that an O.D. type affect. I an sensitive to central nervious system stimulent's,but i didn't think the EC-stack was that powerful.                                                                                       I don't know if this is relevent,but im on Suboxone. thank's john[/quote]

Johnny from Canada, you brought some memories back with your purchase of ephedrine at a Canadian health food store. About a year and a half ago I bought the same 8 mg tabs in Montreal, and not realizing that ephedrine is no longer sold in the USA (at least not in that form), and importation itself is frowned upon, I succesfully brought back 10 bottles over the border and into the US (to try them as part of an ECA fat loss stack, respectively). An interesting trial run I had with those to say the least.

Anyway, here is my limited experience and advice:

Since I was using them as part of an EC stack (I skipped the aspirin based on forum advice), I took a 200 mg caffeine tab + three 8 mg ephedrine tabs 3-4 times a day for about two months (though I never will do that again, as the possible adrenal fatigue and crash was unforgivable). I can remember that my first dose gave me the same super-charged workout, minus the potential side effects that you mentioned, although my pulse rate definitely felt up. I thought that I was going to literally break some of the equipment, the workout was that good. As time went on however, that feeling slowly leveled off, and did less and less in terms of providing an insanely intense workout.

Fast forward to today, and here is what I learned and recommend from my experience:

(1) Personally, I’m not super sensitive to caffeine at all, but ephedrine and caffeine is a different animal for me. I may have gotten away with a lesser dose than 24 mg, so next time I suggest that you start with a single 8 mg tab only (with your coffee or caffeine tab), and see how you respond. Your sweet spot may be one or two tabs, and over time, you could up that to three or more (if need be).

(2) I used it for dieting, and as such I was taking 24 mg several (sometimes 4) times a day. It worked, and worked well, but the after effects were not worth it. In hindsight, I believe that I could have gotten the same results with a diet tweek here and there, though maybe it would have taken me a little while longer to achieve my aforementioned results. So while the EC fat loss stack is history for me, I may used it again ONLY for a preworkout boost, if I’m not working out too late in the day.

(3) Cycling ephedrine may be helpful as well, even if you are strictly using it as a workout stimulant (preferably with caffeine), so you never risk becoming desensitized to the dosing and frequency. For those that are sensitive to it, all the more reason; if you are going for an extra grueling workout or personal best in a lift, that may be the right occassion. (For me, I’m going to use a cautious approach and never use it more than twice a week for about a month or so, as that should suffice.)

Hope that helps, good luck with your regimen.

[/quote]
Wow.Thank-you very much. I did 8mg’s the next day while doing tricep-extension’s. I got that same intimidating/scarry unmanageable feeling.According to our chemistry’s,at least for me,im super sensitive to that combination.Bro ive snorted Cocaine and not felt as compromised.Have you ever tried this Pre-workout suppluiment called:(ONE MORE REP) it’s speedy,but manageable. I am also 53,in good shape body and cardio,but i have a preexisting panic attack history.I think my using stimulent’s is deleterious to my health and sanity.Thank-you very much for your detailed and very informative knowledge of efedrine.You should be submitting your knowledge for a sticky??.Thank’s johnny

#12

[/quote]
Wow.Thank-you very much. I did 8mg’s the next day while doing tricep-extension’s. I got that same intimidating/scarry unmanageable feeling.According to our chemistry’s,at least for me,im super sensitive to that combination.Bro ive snorted Cocaine and not felt as compromised.Have you ever tried this Pre-workout suppluiment called:(ONE MORE REP) it’s speedy,but manageable. I am also 53,in good shape body and cardio,but i have a preexisting panic attack history.I think my using stimulent’s is deleterious to my health and sanity.Thank-you very much for your detailed and very informative knowledge of efedrine.You should be submitting your knowledge for a sticky??.Thank’s johnny[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words Johnny, glad if I was able to help.

I believe that the problem with the stimulants and performance boosters is that they affect different folks in such a varied fashion. A perfect example is my friend here at work; a lifelong dedicated gym rat and MMA trainee, he can tolerate caffeine and ephedrine quite well before a workout, but yohimbe HCL gives him crazy jitters (it has no such effect on me, however).

And if I remember reading correctly, the yohimbe + caffeine + ephedrine stack was both popular & effective for some folks here on this site (it was a while back on some T-Nation forum, but I forget exactly where), but to others it felt like pure death. Slightly different individual physiology among users, wildly different results from those compounds…such is the nature of these products. And that’s just based on what you can only feel at the time, as these compunds may be doing others things to your body that might only show up through chronic use (my experience with possible adrenal fatigue comes to mind from my EC experimental run).

I’m by no means an expert on the pharmacology of these supplements/drugs, but it’s always best to lean on the side on caution I think. At least for myself, when it comes to having a great workout and getting a pick up when I need it most, none of these products that I’ve tried do anything more than what a cup of Starbucks does to get me through a workout. And logic should said in at some point and tell you that if you can’t get by with that alone, you may want to get some rest and skip that work out altogether (or may go lighter that day).

That last part is important because I can’t tell you how many times I see trainess at my facility routinely mixing caffeinated beverages with alternate stimulants, as well as various other energy-bossting products. They are essentially carpet bombing their central nervous system for lengthy periods of time, without giving any though to what they’re doing, or the long term consequences (if any, but who knows). At best, they’ll eventually crash and face a significant period of lethargy and adrenal fatigue; far worse, they are asking for some unforseen cardiovascular episode to hit them down the road.

Let’s all use better judgement.