Entitled to Beautiful Women?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.
[/quote]

I share the same self-esteem problem.

Mind telling how you got over yours? I keep telling myself I’ll get over mine once I build an awesome physique and get that 100k+/year job in a couple of years, but I know in the back of my head that those are all lies.

Self-esteem issues don’t go away unless you find a way to make them go away.

If all you seek is to get laid then looks matter a whole lot. If, on the other hand you want something long term and fulfilling, then you will be your happiest when you find someone you are completely compatible with. If she happens to be a hotty then thats a huge bonus, but it’s not the be all and end all, at least in my opinion.

I’ve gone out with all sorts of women from plain janes to stunners who everyone checks out when we’re walking in public. I can honestly tell you that there is no correlation between a persons looks and whether they will make you happy in the long term. At least in any deep and meaningful sense.

Too many men I know focus on the superficial rather than looking a bit deeper, and i truly believe that they are all the more unhappy for it.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.
[/quote]

I share the same self-esteem problem.

Mind telling how you got over yours? I keep telling myself I’ll get over mine once I build an awesome physique and get that 100k+/year job in a couple of years, but I know in the back of my head that those are all lies.

Self-esteem issues don’t go away unless you find a way to make them go away.
[/quote]

In my experience it is about getting out there and just enjoying yourself. If you set some targets that in your mind you must hit in order for your self-esteem to suddenly shoot up you’re setting yourself up for a bigger fall.
The honest truth is that you just get out there and gain new experiences, and learn from them. You don’t need x amount of cash or a certain body fat percentage to meet women. What you do need is confidence and to be at ease with yourself. That comes from getting out there and enjoying life. You soon realise that most women are not as superficial as you might think.

The women who have a chance to meet me deserve the experience

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.
[/quote]

I share the same self-esteem problem.

Mind telling how you got over yours? I keep telling myself I’ll get over mine once I build an awesome physique and get that 100k+/year job in a couple of years, but I know in the back of my head that those are all lies.

Self-esteem issues don’t go away unless you find a way to make them go away.
[/quote]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you are NOT unique.

You are NOT the only person in the world with self-esteem issues.

You should realize every single fucking person in the world has them.

It’s how we use it to our advantage that sets us apart.

For example, I struggled(still do occasionally) with the inevitably of my hairline, it bothered me constantly for this past year. It makes a guy go from chest-out-smile-big-walk-confidently to i-hope-no-one-looks-at-my-head-and-obviously-i’m-radiating-uncomfortablness

Then I decided the difference between a good hairline and a bad one - is my attitude - how I choose to deal with it.

Basically, if you don’t worry about it, then nobody else will either.<- ingrain the following for a good life.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
All this talk about Elliott Rodger got me thinking, and much of the talk reminds me of George Sodini, the guy who shot a few women in an LA Fitness gym.
[/quote]

Where/when/how do people develop a capacity for love?

In my opinion it comes from the mother. It’s the mother who needs to teach the son about love, patience and understanding. Obviously these idiots were so misguided that they were quicker to look outwards for problem-solving instead of inwards.

It’s something that has been occupying my mind lately because I’m speaking to one of my ex-girlfriends and she complains so much about how this guy or that guy would be perfect for her if they just showed some interest.

How the fuck do people grow up to become so oblivious?

Variation, repetition, progressive overload, ROM training. These are things you can apply to life too, stuff like jobs, meeting women, making friends, learning things. Those same things help you develop a healthy understanding of your limits, become confident within those limits, and learn to push and improve.

“ROM based training” applied to real life: if you want to be comfortable and confident around intelligent attractive women, you can work on that with intelligent but unattractive women, and learn to hold your own: keep them interested, have engaging enjoyable conversations. Learn to be interesting enough that intelligent women are attracted to you for your intellect. Meanwhile, later, get yourself comfortable around dumb attractive women: flirt with hot bartenders, hostesses, waitresses… people that you actually have a reason to talk to and can “practice” with. Work yourself past “she’s hot, I’m intimidated and nervous”.

You master both of those, and that should take you a good bit of the way to talking with and enjoying women who are both intelligent and attractive.

Just break down the problem, and apply the techniques you already know toward it. And pay attention to yourself and how you react to things. Hell, even something like a training log might help.

“Progressive overload” can be applied in a similar way to what they call “exposure therapy”. Lets say you have trouble meeting people. Start with something easy, and just make a tiny bit of small talk with someone you’re already interacting with – e.g., the cashier at a gas station or grocery store. Tomorrow, do that with two people. The next day, have a slightly longer conversation with someone. Eventually, learn to strike up an interesting conversation with a random stranger. Just keep working on it, pushing the boundaries, and you’ll keep improving.

Some people make faster progress than others, but these same lessons and strategies can be applied to anything, not just lifting more weight.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
It’s the word “deserve” that always throws me for a loop. With jobs, with women.

You don’t deserve anything. You earn things, or you take them. And then you work to keep them, or you can lose them.

That just seems common sense to me. I really don’t understand how people can’t/don’t/won’t accept that.[/quote]

On second thought, maybe I was harsh in the way I wrote that.

How about this: being entitled to beautiful women and a great salary is like being entitled to a 315 bench.

Some people can do that without trying. Some people have to work at it. Nobody is entitled to it.

No matter how much you think you deserve it… “I train much harder than he does” or “I come from a family of strong people” or “it’s not fair”… the barbell doesn’t care. Rephrase as appropriate “I went to a great school and I’m really good at my job”, or “I’m a really nice guy and I look good naked”.

There are tons and tons of factors (like self-esteem) that matter in your ability to accomplish anything, but in the end, you’ve just got to figure out what works for you.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.[/quote]

I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.

A few times in my adult life, I’ve had women on Facebook say to me something like, “Oh, I remember you from high school, but like… you never said anything to me.” Then I would say to myself, “HUH?” There was even a girl in my high school who I NEVER SHARED A WORD WITH who told my friends, “He can have women but he acts like he can’t”. Let me repeat that: that girl never even shared a word with me but could “smell” the low self-esteem I had.

This vicious cycle of low self esteem causing lack of women which caused even lower self esteem felt strangling to me, and it was hard to deal with. Thankfully I eventually got over it.
[/quote]

You had a problem with self esteem. Don’t you think things you stated would have been different if steps were taken early to solve the esteem issues instead of trying to attract women despite these esteem issues?
[/quote]

Isn’t that what I implied?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.[/quote]

I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.

A few times in my adult life, I’ve had women on Facebook say to me something like, “Oh, I remember you from high school, but like… you never said anything to me.” Then I would say to myself, “HUH?” There was even a girl in my high school who I NEVER SHARED A WORD WITH who told my friends, “He can have women but he acts like he can’t”. Let me repeat that: that girl never even shared a word with me but could “smell” the low self-esteem I had.

This vicious cycle of low self esteem causing lack of women which caused even lower self esteem felt strangling to me, and it was hard to deal with. Thankfully I eventually got over it.
[/quote]

You had a problem with self esteem. Don’t you think things you stated would have been different if steps were taken early to solve the esteem issues instead of trying to attract women despite these esteem issues?
[/quote]

Isn’t that what I implied?[/quote]

I’m referring to early in life. If you had a different experience then, would your current outlook be the same?

Yes it’s easy to say, 2s go for 2s, 5s go for 5s…But, no one wants to tell themselves or admit they’re ugly. We all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. I think the only thing that matters is what you think of yourself. If you have the confidence, you can raise yourself a few points no doubt. Just like you can knock yourself down a few points by having no confidence.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.[/quote]

I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.

A few times in my adult life, I’ve had women on Facebook say to me something like, “Oh, I remember you from high school, but like… you never said anything to me.” Then I would say to myself, “HUH?” There was even a girl in my high school who I NEVER SHARED A WORD WITH who told my friends, “He can have women but he acts like he can’t”. Let me repeat that: that girl never even shared a word with me but could “smell” the low self-esteem I had.

This vicious cycle of low self esteem causing lack of women which caused even lower self esteem felt strangling to me, and it was hard to deal with. Thankfully I eventually got over it.
[/quote]

You had a problem with self esteem. Don’t you think things you stated would have been different if steps were taken early to solve the esteem issues instead of trying to attract women despite these esteem issues?
[/quote]

Isn’t that what I implied?[/quote]

I’m referring to early in life. If you had a different experience then, would your current outlook be the same?
[/quote]

Outlook on what specifically?

[quote]SirTroyRobert wrote:
Yes it’s easy to say, 2s go for 2s, 5s go for 5s…But, no one wants to tell themselves or admit they’re ugly. We all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. I think the only thing that matters is what you think of yourself. If you have the confidence, you can raise yourself a few points no doubt. Just like you can knock yourself down a few points by having no confidence. [/quote]

No one has to tell themselves they’re ugly.

It apparently is not hard for homely people to marry homely people. Take a look around.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[/quote]

[/quote]

[/quote]

[/quote]

[/quote]

Outlook on what specifically?
[/quote]

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

I am not a dating expert, but I say if you’re a five, you go for fives. If you are middle class, you go for middle class. Being a middle class guy myself, I think it would have been ridiculous for me to think that I would have had a shot with a woman from a powerful family. Why some grown men cannot come to grips with the fact that they are ordinary and that there is nothing wrong with attracting ordinary women is beyond me. [/quote]

I was from a lower class background. I have had relationhips with very attractive women from ‘powerful families’ when i was still poor. My second brother recently married one, although currently we are well off enough to be considered ‘upper middle class’. But as I wrote previously, he married very high up, and by that I mean the offspring of someone very high up in the political hierachy of a country i will not name.

I believe a lot of people ‘settle’ for less when they could have had more with the right mindset and guidance. I don’t see the need to put people in their place in term of social class, looks or less than favourable odds unless they really are cliniclly depressed because of this or delusional to the extent of;

[quote]
This sort of thing also reminds me of several bottom feeding, delusional men that I have come across in the past few years, those that for some bizarre reason, despite lacking the training, skills, and wherewithal that warrants a high salary, believe that they are entitled to one simply for existing and thinking about it, or will only work for a high salary or not work at all. [/quote]

and i don’t understand why you keep bringing up these extreme cases as if anyone with ambition fits into such a mould.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

and i don’t understand why you keep bringing up these extreme cases as if anyone with ambition fits into such a mould.
[/quote]

I have to go soon, but I will comment fast here.

I don’t understand why you don’t understand. The topic of this thread shows that I am speaking of men who feel they are entitled to things, not ambitious men. Ambitious men don’t think they are going to be handed a high salary without working.

I also speak in VERY general terms here. When I was single, I attracted and went on dates with women who earned far more than me. As a matter of fact, I had short term relationship with a woman who earned over twice as much as I was. That ended for other concrete reasons other than income disparity. I also used to spend a lot of time with a woman from a well-to-do family from the Northshore of Long Island. I also went on dates with a few lawyer women, but again, the match was not compatible for other reasons or timing, or whatever.

And I didn’t say people shouldn’t try hard at whatever or keep their options open. I am speaking of men for whom this thread fits: those who feel ENTITLED, not some guys who just happen to stumble upon some women higher earning, smarter, or more attractive than they. It’s one thing for something to actually HAPPEN, and another to feel entitled to it! Apparently Sodini and Rodger thought they had certain things coming to them when in fact they weren’t. And as I said, not all men with feelings of entitlement go on shooting sprees. Some lead lives of desperation without bothering anyone. Well, don’t bother anyway except for some of the co-workers they annoy in the cases of men who feel they should be paid to sit on their ass while others pick up the slack because for some bizarre reason they believe the world owes them a living without work done.

You’re befuddled when meanwhile the men this thread focuses on are troubled men. If I wanted to discuss ambitious or lucky men, I would start a thread titled, “Ambitious and Lucky Men”.

Money/Power and good looks are only part of the equation. It’s how you make a woman FEEL that will determine if you get past the first minute of conversation or end up in the sack with her. Women respond to primarily to status, which is VERY subjective. Now, if the woman is a “nine” and subscribes to the “tribe” of “rich powerful debutantes”, then if you’re not from a rich family, you won’t get past hello. But if she’s somewhat grounded and open minded, then I think a man who can give her that “tingle”, be he rich or poor, handsome or ugly, has a chance.

I’ve noticed in my own career the women I tend to attract varies. When I was a lower paid electrician going through the apprenticeship and just starting out I was middle class, but I played rugby and and had a very powerful physique and some high status with my rugby team. So I was able to attract 8’s pretty consistently.

Then I got into the mortgage business and opened a few companies with the money I earned from that and I grew to a more upper class income/lifestyle. I drove a BMW and a Lexus, wore suits everyday, kicked ass making a lot of money with what was essentially my own business ( I set my own hours and didn’t “work FOR” anyone). I also lost a lot of muscle mass, but still kept my six pack. I was able to attract 9’s easily and even some 9.5’s. I looked pretty good and had high status and made a lot of money.

Then the market took a shit, I got divorced, lost A LOT of income/assets and was limping along with my financial obligations and income. Still had a lot of “social proof” from my more successful days, but the 9.5’s weren’t very easy to get anymore. I was able to attract one or two during those years, but it was back down to the 8’s for this guy.

Then the gov’t decided to yank my mortgage career out from under me with regulation changes and I was forced to start finding work wherever I could. So I started bartending and doing side electrical work. As a bartender, I was awesome - made 700 to a G a night and I was back to banging 9’s! It wasn’t “mortgage money”, but it was pretty good and I was able to leverage my STATUS to attract women. Being the bartender and “owning” that persona allowed me to appear to have a higher status than many of the customers who made FAR more money than I did. I was playing to their fantasies.

Then I went down to the gulf of Mexico, started working on oil rigs, made some money, but I wasn’t really “on shore” enough to go out and pull very consistently. It was pretty hit or miss most nights, and inconsistent with the quality (don’t worry, I didn’t bang any trolls).

Then I moved back to VA, got a really good electrical job which I leveraged into an even better electrical job working with critical power systems. I’m making some serious loot for an electrician (I’ll easily make more than 220K this year). So NOW, I’m an “upper class, blue collar” guy. I make more than many “upper class” and “successful” guys in my area. But I am an ELECTRICIAN. I get my hands dirty. I have to wake up at 4:45AM. I drive a truck with a company logo. So I’m back down to 8’s again.

Now that’s not saying that if I go to a wedding or “formal event” or something and clean up really nice I can’t attract a really attractive woman in the 9 range - I can. But it’s funny when I finally answer the question, “what do you do?” and I actually give them a straight answer, you can almost SEE the lights of attraction going out in their eyes… Like a balloon deflating - the spark just dies and literally NOTHING I do can rekindle it. It’s pretty interesting to me to see it because I have a pretty good understanding of social dynamics/women and it’s SOOOOO predictable. I mean I could have her laughing her ass off, touching me, giving me some serious interest and thinking to myself, “yeah, I got this”, but then the “occupational” question comes up. If I dodge the question and keep it playful, I can hold her interest for a bit longer and hopefully develop some rapport that isn’t just skin deep. But if I fail to “connect” with her on more than a superficial level and she learns that I have a blue collar career, she’s usually gone in less than five minutes. Like fucking clockwork. Now I’m talking about NINES in that scenario - most people don’t have the balls to even APPROACH a nine. But that’s not hard for me, what’s hard for me is to keep her interested once she finds out that I don’t fit into that little “box” she’s been building for herself since she became aware of her beauty and was told from a young age not to “waste” it.

8’s and 8.5’s are pretty consistent for me with my current situation, though. In fact, there’s a 7 that I’m really comfortable with, have a great time with and can just really relax and enjoy her company. Is she as “hawt” as some of the other women I know that I could choose to spend time with? Nope. But do I have a great time when I’m with her? Yup. She ain’t “perfect”, but I’ve had damn near perfect and it was kind of a pain in the ass most of the time and required a LOT of work to maintain. I work too many hours to worry about all that shit now. LOL

Sorry about the novel, but this is topic that I find very interesting.

Regarding the OP, I think it’s spot on in MOST cases. There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but generally speaking, Brick is spot on. Here’s the takeaway: if you want to attract beautiful woman, BECOME the guy that beautiful women are attracted to. You have to change YOURSELF, not figure out a way to change them. You can fool anyone for little bit, but what don’t come out in the wash, will come out in the rinse. And then, if you’ve lied, you are revealed to be the pathetic loser that you are. So don’t lie. Just become the most awesome version of you that you can.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Money/Power and good looks are only part of the equation. It’s how you make a woman FEEL that will determine if you get past the first minute of conversation or end up in the sack with her. Women respond to primarily to status, which is VERY subjective. Now, if the woman is a “nine” and subscribes to the “tribe” of “rich powerful debutantes”, then if you’re not from a rich family, you won’t get past hello. But if she’s somewhat grounded and open minded, then I think a man who can give her that “tingle”, be he rich or poor, handsome or ugly, has a chance.

I’ve noticed in my own career the women I tend to attract varies. When I was a lower paid electrician going through the apprenticeship and just starting out I was middle class, but I played rugby and and had a very powerful physique and some high status with my rugby team. So I was able to attract 8’s pretty consistently.

Then I got into the mortgage business and opened a few companies with the money I earned from that and I grew to a more upper class income/lifestyle. I drove a BMW and a Lexus, wore suits everyday, kicked ass making a lot of money with what was essentially my own business ( I set my own hours and didn’t “work FOR” anyone). I also lost a lot of muscle mass, but still kept my six pack. I was able to attract 9’s easily and even some 9.5’s. I looked pretty good and had high status and made a lot of money.

Then the market took a shit, I got divorced, lost A LOT of income/assets and was limping along with my financial obligations and income. Still had a lot of “social proof” from my more successful days, but the 9.5’s weren’t very easy to get anymore. I was able to attract one or two during those years, but it was back down to the 8’s for this guy.

Then the gov’t decided to yank my mortgage career out from under me with regulation changes and I was forced to start finding work wherever I could. So I started bartending and doing side electrical work. As a bartender, I was awesome - made 700 to a G a night and I was back to banging 9’s! It wasn’t “mortgage money”, but it was pretty good and I was able to leverage my STATUS to attract women. Being the bartender and “owning” that persona allowed me to appear to have a higher status than many of the customers who made FAR more money than I did. I was playing to their fantasies.

Then I went down to the gulf of Mexico, started working on oil rigs, made some money, but I wasn’t really “on shore” enough to go out and pull very consistently. It was pretty hit or miss most nights, and inconsistent with the quality (don’t worry, I didn’t bang any trolls).

Then I moved back to VA, got a really good electrical job which I leveraged into an even better electrical job working with critical power systems. I’m making some serious loot for an electrician (I’ll easily make more than 220K this year). So NOW, I’m an “upper class, blue collar” guy. I make more than many “upper class” and “successful” guys in my area. But I am an ELECTRICIAN. I get my hands dirty. I have to wake up at 4:45AM. I drive a truck with a company logo. So I’m back down to 8’s again.

Now that’s not saying that if I go to a wedding or “formal event” or something and clean up really nice I can’t attract a really attractive woman in the 9 range - I can. But it’s funny when I finally answer the question, “what do you do?” and I actually give them a straight answer, you can almost SEE the lights of attraction going out in their eyes… Like a balloon deflating - the spark just dies and literally NOTHING I do can rekindle it. It’s pretty interesting to me to see it because I have a pretty good understanding of social dynamics/women and it’s SOOOOO predictable. I mean I could have her laughing her ass off, touching me, giving me some serious interest and thinking to myself, “yeah, I got this”, but then the “occupational” question comes up. If I dodge the question and keep it playful, I can hold her interest for a bit longer and hopefully develop some rapport that isn’t just skin deep. But if I fail to “connect” with her on more than a superficial level and she learns that I have a blue collar career, she’s usually gone in less than five minutes. Like fucking clockwork. Now I’m talking about NINES in that scenario - most people don’t have the balls to even APPROACH a nine. But that’s not hard for me, what’s hard for me is to keep her interested once she finds out that I don’t fit into that little “box” she’s been building for herself since she became aware of her beauty and was told from a young age not to “waste” it.

8’s and 8.5’s are pretty consistent for me with my current situation, though. In fact, there’s a 7 that I’m really comfortable with, have a great time with and can just really relax and enjoy her company. Is she as “hawt” as some of the other women I know that I could choose to spend time with? Nope. But do I have a great time when I’m with her? Yup. She ain’t “perfect”, but I’ve had damn near perfect and it was kind of a pain in the ass most of the time and required a LOT of work to maintain. I work too many hours to worry about all that shit now. LOL

Sorry about the novel, but this is topic that I find very interesting.

Regarding the OP, I think it’s spot on in MOST cases. There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but generally speaking, Brick is spot on. Here’s the takeaway: if you want to attract beautiful woman, BECOME the guy that beautiful women are attracted to. You have to change YOURSELF, not figure out a way to change them. You can fool anyone for little bit, but what don’t come out in the wash, will come out in the rinse. And then, if you’ve lied, you are revealed to be the pathetic loser that you are. So don’t lie. Just become the most awesome version of you that you can.[/quote]

This is highly off topic, I know, but is becoming an Electrician a good trade?

I want to do something on the side to make more money, because I’m probably going to reach the cap on my current career soon for a non-managerial position and wanted to keep my options open.

Really don’t give a shit as to the “social stigma” of blue collar work from the ladies or anyone else. If I’m making bank, and I’m not stressed to shit, that’s all that matters.

^^^^^^

Can confirm ACs post it very much depends on social status and whatnot with 8s and 9s.

However, they can have their pick, they can have looks, athleticism, social status and money if they want…

Why would they not?

However, if you have been on a bit of a social and financial rollercoaster like I have been, you realize eventually that women are every bit as superficial as men.

Imagine a woman that gains 50lbs and loses it, gains it and loses it, and again and so further and so on…

Thats you if your income and social status fluctuates.

Some things that I have learned (tried to learn?) as I’ve gotten older:

-Looks are not really that important in the grand scheme when looking for a mate. Attraction needs to be there, but it seems like far too much emphasis is put on “numbers” and what people look like. Even in this thread we are talking about “fives marrying tens” or some-such. This, to me, seems wrong. People should look more at who a person is rather than how attractive they are. Now, that said, I kinda understand the “real world” aspect of what you are saying and how “everyone” want’s a “hot” mate. But looking at levels of attractiveness FIRST seems wrong…it should be much lower on the list.

-No one is going to be able to make you happy, and you cannot make anyone else happy. Happiness is something that must be obtained from within. I’ve know a lot of marriages that have ended in recent years because one of the sides (normally the woman) “isn’t happy anymore.” This is pretty shocking to me. When I talk with my older relatives who have been married for years, they talk about “good years and bad years.” The idea that after 12 or 24 months of marriage one should just give up is emblematic of the problem that I think this thread (and a lot of this site) is trying to address: entitlement mentality. If you are looking to get happiness, dig inside, not outside. Getting married, or divorced, or “dating a ten,” or “dating a rich girl” …none of it… is going to make you happy. You have to dig inside and fix that which is wrong with you yourself… Eh, I’m rambling now, but maybe this kinda makes sense.

I was going to write more, but I gotta go… good thread

“You don’t love a woman because she’s beautiful, she’s beautiful because you love her.”

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