T Nation

Entitled to Beautiful Women?


#1

All this talk about Elliott Rodger got me thinking, and much of the talk reminds me of George Sodini, the guy who shot a few women in an LA Fitness gym.

Clearly, both of these men had an understandable problem: no women in their lives. I say understandable because the inability to find and attract women is indeed a problem and can cause men to become incredibly angry, lonely, and sad, which in turn can affect other aspects of a man's life. I actually believe there are few things that can make a man angrier than lack of a woman.

Now, most men who can't find a woman do not go nuts and on shooting rampages. They simply live lonely lives with emotional problems and likely achieve less than they could if they did not have a, utterly strangling preoccupation with their inability to have a woman.

But as much as I can empathize with such men's frustration, I believe they do themselves a disservice by focusing on what they call "attractive women". Now, there's the old saying, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," but I believe who such men are referring to as "attractive women" are BEAUTIFUL women, that tiny minority of women who are strikingly good looking, not just "attractive" or "pretty". Let's get this straight: few men attract these sorts of women. I believe the frustrated men I speak of would be far better off if they simply became more realistic and realize that "like attracts like" and unless a man is rich or strikingly good looking himself--not just "good looking" or "handsome"--he likely will not attract strikingly good looking women.

Perhaps they are speaking of women who are simply "attractive", but perhaps it might be true that such women would have not gone out with a George Sodini or Elliott Rodger. I am not a dating expert, but I say if you're a five, you go for fives. If you are middle class, you go for middle class. Being a middle class guy myself, I think it would have been ridiculous for me to think that I would have had a shot with a woman from a powerful family. Why some grown men cannot come to grips with the fact that they are ordinary and that there is nothing wrong with attracting ordinary women is beyond me.


#2

This sort of thing also reminds me of several bottom feeding, delusional men that I have come across in the past few years, those that for some bizarre reason, despite lacking the training, skills, and wherewithal that warrants a high salary, believe that they are entitled to one simply for existing and thinking about it, or will only work for a high salary or not work at all.


#3

because everyone is told they’re a beautiful special snowflake these days, and have a very high sense of self worth. When the reality is that people need to be humbled a bit more and know their own limitations in life.

I think men still need to aim high and not relegate themselves to dating trolls, but approach it with a sense of reality.


#4

[quote]Aggv wrote:
because everyone is told they’re a beautiful special snowflake these days, and have a very high sense of self worth. When the reality is that people need to be humbled a bit more and know their own limitations in life.

I think men still need to aim high and not relegate themselves to dating trolls, but approach it with a sense of reality. [/quote]

Good post.

I assume you refer to homely women as trolls. I like the term “homely” better than trollish. There are homely men who are suited for homely women. Nothing wrong with this.


#5

You are using mentally ill people with very obvious delusions of grandeur as examples. What does this have to do with the rest of us? Marrying someone of a much higher social class or getting a much higher salary than the norm isn’t a delusion in itself.


#6

[quote]Aggv wrote:
because everyone is told they’re a beautiful special snowflake these days, and have a very high sense of self worth. When the reality is that people need to be humbled a bit more and know their own limitations in life.
[/quote]

No doubt. I’ve had a few ‘heart to heart chats’ with some of my students, hoping that the ones who refuse to even attempt any work will understand that:

-No one will be waiting when you graduate (if you do) with a job offer.

-Despite how things work in video games, you don’t get a do-over in life once you’ve really f-ed something up.

-Certain things that they view as being an accomplishment aren’t. They’re expected, and by either not managing such tasks, or even making it out like some monumental task was completed, you don’t look good.

-If you “can’t do” something, you don’t ever accept such a defeatist attitude! You bust your ass and you do your best, and hopefully things will either work out, or at least maybe your gusto will earn you respect if they don’t.

(Hope that wasn’t too off topic, my frustrated high school teacher persona pops his head out occasionally -lol)

S


#7

It’s the word “deserve” that always throws me for a loop. With jobs, with women.

You don’t deserve anything. You earn things, or you take them. And then you work to keep them, or you can lose them.

That just seems common sense to me. I really don’t understand how people can’t/don’t/won’t accept that.


#8

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You are using mentally ill people with very obvious delusions of grandeur as examples. What does this have to do with the rest of us? Marrying someone of a much higher social class or getting a much higher salary than the norm isn’t a delusion in itself.[/quote]

I was not just speaking of mentally ill people. There are MANY men who believe that they are entitled to beautiful women or should only be trying to obtain dates with beautiful women, some of whom also have mental illness such as depression or substance abuse resulting from their lack of women.

Believing one deserves a high salary despite not having the necessary skills, education, training, and wherewithal is delusional in my book and for simply existing and thinking about without being born to a rich and powerful family is delusional in my book.


#9

I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.


#10

And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it.


#11

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You are using mentally ill people with very obvious delusions of grandeur as examples. What does this have to do with the rest of us? Marrying someone of a much higher social class or getting a much higher salary than the norm isn’t a delusion in itself.[/quote]

I was not just speaking of mentally ill people. There are MANY men who believe that they are entitled to beautiful women or should only be trying to obtain dates with beautiful women, some of whom also have mental illness such as depression or substance abuse resulting from their lack of women.

Believing one deserves a high salary despite not having the necessary skills, education, training, and wherewithal is delusional in my book and for simply existing and thinking about without being born to a rich and powerful family is delusional in my book. [/quote]

Understood. But there are degrees of delusion. Someone with such beliefs of entitlement probably has it just below that of the mentally ill. People who posess the required character traits to achieve what you have wrtten would not be alone at home wallowing in depression waiting for life to give them a handout.


#12

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

My 2nd brother just did. Very high up.


#13

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.[/quote]

I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.

A few times in my adult life, I’ve had women on Facebook say to me something like, “Oh, I remember you from high school, but like… you never said anything to me.” Then I would say to myself, “HUH?” There was even a girl in my high school who I NEVER SHARED A WORD WITH who told my friends, “He can have women but he acts like he can’t”. Let me repeat that: that girl never even shared a word with me but could “smell” the low self-esteem I had.

This vicious cycle of low self esteem causing lack of women which caused even lower self esteem felt strangling to me, and it was hard to deal with. Thankfully I eventually got over it.


#14

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

My 2nd brother just did. Very high up. [/quote]

For every one of him, there are loads who can’t or won’t.

My brother will likely be doing the same. Although he earns six figures himself, he is with a woman from Beverly Hills who intends on proposing to.


#15

[quote]Aggv wrote:
because everyone is told they’re a beautiful special snowflake these days, and have a very high sense of self worth. When the reality is that people need to be humbled a bit more and know their own limitations in life.

I think men still need to aim high and not relegate themselves to dating trolls, but approach it with a sense of reality. [/quote]

Also, what exactly is a troll? Is a troll simply someone who is ugly? What if an ugly person is smart or productive and caring and could be a good match for another ugly person?


#16

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

My 2nd brother just did. Very high up. [/quote]

For every one of him, there are loads who can’t or won’t.

My brother will likely be doing the same. Although he earns six figures himself, he is with a woman from Beverly Hills who intends on proposing to. [/quote]

Then we both have real life examples to share. :slight_smile: I do not see anything wrong with people setting their sights high even though the odds are low.

If one is of a character such that any set back in life throws him off and sends him into a state of depression or developing esteem issues, the problem he needs to solve isn’t that of ambition, but strength of character.


#17

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

My 2nd brother just did. Very high up. [/quote]

For every one of him, there are loads who can’t or won’t.

My brother will likely be doing the same. Although he earns six figures himself, he is with a woman from Beverly Hills who intends on proposing to. [/quote]

The chances of finding a “rich girl” who is also attractive and not a pretentious psychopath are very slim.


#18

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had trouble with girls growing up. I put an incredible emphasis on it.

In my head it was so necessary because I figured that it was one of the most important aspects of life. To have the ABILITY to find a mate, in order to develop the ABILITY to start and develop a long term relationship. Which would eventually lead to kids in the future, which I always felt was basically the number one goal in life, to have successful offspring.

I was so frustrated that at the age of 17 I had rewired an old radio tube amp to use as a guitar amp. It was my first 100% successful project without the help of anyone else. As soon as I had finished it, I looked at it and though “yea, but I am still a virgin and this isn’t going to change that or help me in anyway to get girls”.

2 min later I straight up threw that thing into the garbage.

Looking back it was maybe one of the top 3 stupidest things I have ever done and even reminding myself about it by writing this makes me what to punch myself in the nuts. After all that hard work and being SUCCESSFUL on my own in building that amp, I just threw it all away, literally.

It’s crazy how much of an emphasis guys can put on getting girls and what it can lead us to do when we see ourselves as not being successful in it. My friends waere good with girls, my dad had stories of how he was such a player.

Not being able to see myself be remotely successful made me feel like an outcast. Af future of loneliness, dying alone without kids. With no real point to my life.[/quote]

I had problems too because of self-esteem. Unlike some men, it was not lack of women that caused my low self-esteem. It was my low self-esteem that caused me not to attract and keep a woman. There were more than enough women in life that were interested or WOUD HAVE been interested, but I could not recognize or capitalize upon opportunities when they arose. And let’s get this straight: men need only a few women interested in them, not a damn harem. So if you meet 100 women and five are interested, that’s enough! And hopefully he can marry one of them if he wants to.

A few times in my adult life, I’ve had women on Facebook say to me something like, “Oh, I remember you from high school, but like… you never said anything to me.” Then I would say to myself, “HUH?” There was even a girl in my high school who I NEVER SHARED A WORD WITH who told my friends, “He can have women but he acts like he can’t”. Let me repeat that: that girl never even shared a word with me but could “smell” the low self-esteem I had.

This vicious cycle of low self esteem causing lack of women which caused even lower self esteem felt strangling to me, and it was hard to deal with. Thankfully I eventually got over it.
[/quote]

You had a problem with self esteem. Don’t you think things you stated would have been different if steps were taken early to solve the esteem issues instead of trying to attract women despite these esteem issues?


#19

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
because everyone is told they’re a beautiful special snowflake these days, and have a very high sense of self worth. When the reality is that people need to be humbled a bit more and know their own limitations in life.

I think men still need to aim high and not relegate themselves to dating trolls, but approach it with a sense of reality. [/quote]

Also, what exactly is a troll? Is a troll simply someone who is ugly? What if an ugly person is smart or productive and caring and could be a good match for another ugly person? [/quote]

troll = generic term for an physically unattractive chick.

I agree that 2 ugly people who get along can make for a great relationship.


#20

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

My 2nd brother just did. Very high up. [/quote]

For every one of him, there are loads who can’t or won’t.

My brother will likely be doing the same. Although he earns six figures himself, he is with a woman from Beverly Hills who intends on proposing to. [/quote]

The chances of finding a “rich girl” who is also attractive and not a pretentious psychopath are very slim. [/quote]

This i can personally attest to lol. From experience.