T Nation

Entering the Dark Side


#1

EDIT: Former post was too long and full of irrelevant information.

I feel rather out of place writing this post. Where to begin:
I don't plan on using steroids for a long time. I was asked though to do some research for a friend that wants to take the pluge. Where should I begin if I wanted to learn my shit? Take into account I have a decent grasp of exercise physiology and understand PCT, negative feedback loops, etc. Article or thread suggetions? Anabolics 05 or other books?
Thanks
Jason


#2

Start by reading/analyzing every single thread on the steroid forum. Within time you should have enough knowledge to assist your friend with his goals.


#3

Since reading and analyzing every single thread in the steroid forum would be both excessively time consuming and pointless let me cut it down a little for you.

Read the steroid newbies thread that's around here somewhere. Read everything in the archieves by Cy Wilson.

Then ask questions that aren't answered in either of those two and we'll help you out.

STU


#4

The threads would take forever.....


#5

I've read most of Cy's articles; it's just been awhile.
I'll get to it.


#6

Reading articles by "gurus" is a good way to get up to speed. But gurus all have their own biased way of looking at things.
There are lots of boards around the internet geared towards AAS. These will be very good to broaden your view on AAS.

Never rely on one source of information alone. Lots of boards and sites have profiles that explain what each different steroid does. Reading them is also a good start.
If you are in a hurry to learn about AAS, form specific questions that you want answers to. That should help you a lot. Rather then just reading fragments about everything and anything. Its always easier get somewhere when you know where you wanna go, so to speak.


#7

I've got nothing but love for The Powda, but I've gotta ask: roids are fine, but MEAT isn't?

Apologies if you did start eating meat and I missed it.


#8

Good point. However, in his unedited post he stated how he was doing this research for "a friend".


#9

I don't see the link between roids and meat. Am I missing something? Just for me personally I don't eat meat, yet think intelligent steroid use is fine. Am I being hypocritical or something??


#10

After a little test he'll be devouring cow in no time...

If God didn't want us to eat other animals, he wouldn'ta made them so damn delicious.

Reverend Anvil


#11

It took me a weekend...I guess it depends on how well one can read/absorb the material.


#12

Quite right. I've considered steroids and I've decided at this point they're not for me. I'm MORE than happy with the results I can get from eating right and following Waterbury's workouts. If for some reasons I am not getting the results I want it can generally be attributed to one of three factors:
1) Inadequate sleep
2) I'm eating like crap
3) I'm not having good workouts

Those factors can all be corrected without the introduction of pharmaceuticuals. But for now throw some 1-ad in there and I'm very very happy. I'm only 21 and I don't see the need to cause that much "possible" damage to my HPTA axis along with all the other possible sides e.g. gyno, hair loss, liver and prostate problems, etc.
I'm aware that if a cycle is done correctly most of the side effects can be alleviated but you still run a risk. So not seeing the need and being content with my current physique progression why should I throw roids in?


#13

Thats one of the most logical posts ever.

wait where the hell am i? wanders back to the get a life section


#14

PP, I'm confused. Have you run any cycles of 1-AD? Because many of the sides you are talking about can be experienced with 1-AD. Sure, it doesn't aromatize to estrogen (hence, no gyno), but most folks run it with 4-AD or some form of test (which both aromatize) to keep the libido up and offset the lethargy. I have seen very few folks who do it solo. And I've seen loads of complaints about 1-AD causing hairloss. And it will shut you down just as hard and you have to run PCT.

If you are using prohormones you basically are using a form of steroids. (The DEA sees it that way too)


#15

oopsy daisy !!!


#16

No no, not hypocrytical at all. Choosing not to eat meat just means you're weak-minded and have a small penis.


#17

Yes; you can officially classify me as a hypocrite that is/was aware of his decision.
Where to start.
When I first heard about andro I was still in high school. I was green to lifting and was advised to buy a few supplements; one of which was "poppers." I'm sure you're probably all familiar with it. Once I did my research on it and found out how it worked I naturally flipped out. I had quite the placebo effect when I took it as did my friends b/c we thought it was some SUPER substance w/near magical properties that would also make us "roid rage."
Fast-forward a few years I was researching it more and more b/c...well it intrigued me. That's actually how I found T-Nation; I think I just plugged testosterone into google or something.
I'm well aware that while 1-ad it is not a steroid; it is a steroid precursor meaning that once it's in the body it is converted to 1-testosterone (referring to carbon positions). I'm also aware that the main target of 4-ad was its converstion to testosterone. But an old article by Biotest went something like this:
"Our snazzy Biotest scientists discovered that there is actually a higher concentration of 4-ad circulating in the blood than testosterone!"
Or something like that.

Anyways: I first became interested in 1-ad after I read Big Cat's article on it another website which I will not mention out of respect/moderation. I'm sure a lot of you might have read the review.
So once upon a time I was buying protein powder and then saw the as Pat Arnold dubbed it the "holy grail" of andro products. Or maybe he wrote "In quest of the holy grail." Anyways I bought it. The results were...impressive. I stacked it with androsol the first time around.
Since then I haven't stacked it with anything else and have tried different cycling protocols but have generally just done 3 week cycles. I tried 1 week on and 1 week off for about 6 weeks at one point. That's a really good way to go about if one is under a lot of stress; or has a very active job. I also tried a 5 week cycle once (2 weeks on MAG-10 and 3 weeks on 1-ad) and the results were "HOLY COW!" When I finished the cycle though I couldn't even bench press for a week though b/c every muscle group in my body was just sore as can be.

See this thread:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=473608

Most of the time though I've just done 3 week cycles. I chose that b/c that's how long a bottle lasts corresponding to the dosage I take.
I should mention that I've never taken more than 300mg/day. Others I've read have used up to 3x that amount.

As far as side effects: I haven't experienced the lethargy. I think my libido does go down a bit while I'm on it and a bit when I come off of it. The only significantly noticeable side effect is that I usually will get joint pain around my forearm/elbow. But I feel so much stronger when I lift; as in I look forward to squatting b/c i just feel more "stable." I hope some of you can relate. Plus my strength just goes THROUGH THE ROOF when I"m on it. So far right now (I one week off a 3-week cycle) I've kept my strength gains. I took an off week from the gym once I finished it though.

So yes I'm aware it's a class 1 androgen that binds tightly to the AR and causes suppression very fast. I'm aware it can convert to DHT and cause hair loss. I'm also aware that it can cause the other sides you mentioned b/c an increase in 1-test will supress regular test levels (thus many people take the 4-ad to compensate for this to elevate T).
I've never run PCT on it. I might give 6-oxo a run next time but I want to see how Carbolin 19 works (I'm a sceptic b/c the study cited was not done on previously weight-trained individuals if I remember correctly), but it did still out-perform anavar). And yes I read Bill Roberts post on 6-oxo and had a small discussion about what happened in their clinical study on it. Even Alpha Male might be worth a shot but I'd like to read a study on it first (like Biotest put out for the original TRIBEX-500).

I hope that answers your question. Sorry for the long post and my delayed reply.