Entering 6th Week of TRT, Estrogen Levels High

“do a sensitive estradiol test.”

LC/MS/MS testing is not necessary.

The ECLIA test (aka immunoassay or IA) for E2 management is commonly used for those on TRT. It is not an incorrect test or a test for women, but simply one way to check estradiol levels. The other commonly utilized test is the LC/MS/MS method (aka liquid chromatography dual mass spectrometry, sensitive or ultrasensitive). It is the more expensive of the two. There are inherent advantages and disadvantages to each of these two methods. I have been fortunate to be able to speak with professionals who work with both methods. One is a PhD researcher for Pfizer and the other is a medical doctor at Quest. I’ll summarize their comments.

The ECLIA method is the more reliable of the two in terms of consistent results. The equipment is easier to operate thus accuracy is less reliant on the skill of the operator. If the same sample were to be tested twenty times, there would be very little, if any, difference in the results.

The ECLIA method is not as “sensitive” in that it will not pick up E2 levels below 15pg/mL. If your E2 level with this test is 1-14pg/mL, the reported result will be “<15”. Because of this, it is not recommended for menopausal women, men in whom very low levels of E2 are suspected, or children. In other words, if your levels are below 15pg/mL, and it is important to know if the level is 1 or 14pg/mL, you do not want this test. For us, this is likely moot, since if you are experiencing low E2 symptoms and your test comes back at <15, you have your answer. For a woman being treated with anti-estrogen therapy for breast cancer, it may be necessary to know if the E2 level is zero or fourteen because therapeutically, they want zero estrogen.

A disadvantage to IA testing is that it may pick up other steroid metabolites, which in men would be very low levels and while likely clinically insignificant, still could alter the result. Another potential disadvantage is that elevated levels of C-reactive protein (CRP) may elevate the result. CRP is elevated in serious infections, cancer, auto-immune diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis and other rheumatoid diseases, cardiovascular disease and morbid obesity. Even birth control pills could increase CRP. A normal CRP level is 0-5 to 10mg/L. In the referenced illnesses, CRP can go over 100, or even over 200mg/L. Unless battling one of these serious conditions, CRP interference is unlikely.

The LC/MS/MS method will pick up lower E2 levels and would be indicated in menopausal women and some men if very low E2 levels are suspected and it is desired to know exactly how low, children and the previously mentioned women on anti-estrogen therapy. It will not be influenced by elevated CRP levels or other steroid metabolites.

While some may believe the ECLIA test is for women, on the contrary, as it pertains to women on anti-estrogen therapy, such as breast cancer patients, the LC/MS/MS is the test for women as CRP levels are a consideration and it is necessary to know if the treatment has achieved an estrogen level of zero.
On the other side of the coin, LC/MS/MS equipment is “temperamental” (as stated by the PhD who operates both) and results are more likely to be inconsistent. Because of this, researchers will often run the same sample multiple times.

It is not clear if FDA approval is significant, but this appears on Quest’s lab reports: This test was developed, and its analytical performance characteristics have been determined by Quest Diagnostics Nichols Institute San Juan Capistrano. It has not been cleared or approved by FDA. This assay has been validated pursuant to the CLIA regulations and is used for clinical purposes. This statement is on LabCorp’s results: This test was developed and its performance characteristics determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration.

It is unlikely that any difference in the same sample run through both methods will be clinically significant. Estradiol must be evaluated, and it should be checked initially and ongoing after starting TRT. It obviously makes sense to use the same method throughout. Most important are previous history and symptoms related to low or high E2. Those are correlated with before and after lab results. Any estradiol management should not be utilized without symptoms confirmed by lab results.

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I think that was total estrogens, not E2.

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Appreciate all the posts fellas. Thank you. I need all the advice I can get.

Just to give an update. The doctor granted my “Sensitive Estradiol” test. I’m trying to time this test perfectly in regards to… test shot etc. The other issue is… I feared my estrogen levels were high from original blood work. My right nipple was puffy and slightly tender. My left nipple… no signs of anything. I had to take Anastrozole 0.5mg every day from Tuesday - Saturday. I felt somewhat dizzy on Saturday and couldn’t go to the gym. Actually, didn’t even want to move from my couch. The right nipple puffyness is completely gone… no telling how high Estradiol levels were at that particular point. I also skipped one Test shot. I was taking approx 87mg of Test Cyp every 3rd day.

What do I feel like now? My mind isn’t razor sharp. But, I still feel 50% better now… than how I felt with Low Testosterone. My doctor doesn’t know I took the AI. I had no other choice… I didn’t want gyno sides to start… had no idea how high my estrogen reached… and honestly… my doctor doesn’t know that much in regards to TRT. Remember, only using family doctor because all blood work thus far has been covered by insurance. I’m basically suggesting things to my doctor… and she gives the YES or NO answer.

Trust me… I didn’t want to get involved using an AI. I’ve read the side effects… and how dangerous it can be without knowing the proper dosage. It sucks. No doubt about that. Personally, I don’t even want to use one… but I can’t have puffy nipples… that’s just crazy.

So, I was thinking about taking that E2 Test Monday. My test cyp shot would be due Monday… I’ll take it after the blood work… I’m guessing? Don’t really know? And I figure a couple days off from taking the AI might be ok? Again… TRT is just a guessing game… just trying to narrow things down. Any advice?

Holy crap. Most guys crash their estradiol with .5 mg for the entire week.

You probably most def crashed your e2. And this is very bad.

You are running over the top free t and total t. So You bring down e2 by adjusting your dose. It will take you another 6-8 weeks to level out- you can thank the ai for that.

I would do 50 mg Mon and 50 mg Thursday. Test total t, free t, estradiol, CBC after 8 weeks.

Many guys panic about e2 and feel nipples , etc. You need to give your body time to adjust and reach it’s stable levels with no ai. Then see where your numbers fall and most importantly how you feel. You will not grow tits in 3 weeks.

Thanks for the post Charlie12. Any idea how long it takes for AI to get out of your system from the last dose? My Estrogen score was 401 pg/mL… so I figured it was high. But of course… it wasn’t an E2 test.

About a week. With the high free t …estradiol being a bit over range is usually fine.

As your e2 climbs back up… You will feel stuff. You need to ride it out.

That’s too damn much anastrozole, you likely have crushed your estrogen by now. Stop the madness and stop anastrozole and maybe you’ll recover in the weeks to come. I wouldn’t be worried about how long it takes to get anastrozole out of your system (50 hour half life), but how long it will take to recover from crashing your estrogen.

This stuff isn’t candy, it has the potential to ruin part of your summer. You should consider getting anastrozole through Empower which has smaller customized dosing, as low as .125mg. The tablets are impossible to cut into quarters and you may need even less.

Thank you for the post systemlord. I read on another forum about your medical siutation. I was very sorry to hear this. Wish you the best. Thank you for giving me sound advice.

@systemlord what happened

My potassium labs are consistently very low since all of this began looking back at all the 7 emergency room visits, not to mention iron and vitamin D. Apparently low potassium can paralyze the gut and cause it to completely shut down, you eat food and it doesn’t move causing diarrhea and this elevates estrogen and also causes edema, then affects blood flow and now you look like someone that looks like they have heart failure and cardiogram, kidneys and all other organ testing looks fine.

The question is how long recovery will take after doctor decides to prescribe medication which lowers already bottomed out potassium. As of right now my doctor doesn’t know what is wrong with me, he is lost.

My doctor believes it’s TRT causing my issues even after I told him no TRT for 6 weeks, let me remind you none of these doctors specialize in TRT, so I don’t understand how they could blame TRT as the cause when they don’t know jack about TRT.

It’s a quick way out of further testing and headache for doctors. So I told my doctor that a simple LH test would settle this once and for all, he states it takes decades to shut you down which is true, but LH will be .3 or lower. Now you understand why I hate sick care doctors.

Just wanted to give a quick update.

I took some Anastrozole 0.25 mg for 3 days to cut down on high estrogen levels (puffy nipple). I believe my system doesn’t like Anastrozole at all. I feel very sick within the hour. I lose my drive… my focus… and energy. Again, even on the smallest dose. So, I’ve been feeling like sh#$ since the Anastrozole. This past week… I’m finally feeling better… with (NO AI for around 3 weeks.) But, I was getting a bruising/pain feeling just below my right nipple. Hurt when you pushed on it. Both nipples are sensitive… but no pain on the left nipple. My doctor ordered an E2 test on Friday… and the lab results came in quickly (oddly enough.)

E2 Score: 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

So, my doctor immediately called me and informed me that she’s referring me to an Endocrinologist. I already have the doctor’s name and contact info. Is this a good thing??? Or a bad thing? I plan on calling them Monday. In the meantime… should I just continue with my normal TRT?

So it sounds like your particular case is overwhelming for your GP, I just have doubts about being referred to a doctor that doesn’t typically specializes in this are of medicine. You’re wasting time going to an endo in my opinion, it’s just going to be more of the same cluelessness.

You aromatase quite a bit and it also sounds like you just do not tolerate anastrozole at any dosage do to being an over-responder to AI’s, the only recourse if increasing injection frequencies, more frequent smaller injections feeds less T to the aromatase process within a 24 hour period and less excess T means less estrogen.

The only thing that is going to work for you is daily injections, or T-cream applied to the scrotum.

My levels are very similar to yours total T is 1996, free 36 and E2 77 and my libido is as good as libido can be (maybe even too much). Have you considered that maybe your libido may not be due to estrogen?

The nipple stuff is a mute point until you’ve been on the same protocol for a couple months.

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Thanks for the post systemlord. I will keep this in mind. I figured maybe… give the Endo a chance? Maybe a different AI? I totally agree with what you’re saying… most doctors don’t know how to treat this. I’m going to give them at least a month or 2 to see what they say. If insurance is paying for it… I can’t complain.

Thanks for the post Dextermorgan. I think I was severly low without realizing it? As in Low T. I still pushed myself at the gym… after instense workouts… I was sleeping literally 11-12 hours a day. Anything less… I was an absolute zombie. This was way before any blood work… or a check to see what was wrong. I just figured it was… getting up in age? I don’t know how much damage (if any) I did internally in regards to hormone imbalance? My libido wasn’t great… and I still believe it’s not near where it should be. Yes, I get the morning erections… I wasn’t getting any for the last 3 years. So, in that aspect… I think it’s working.

I also agree that you do need Estrogen at a decent level as well. Even around 80+ (which is high) my mind is a lot more solid… than using an AI.

On the E2 test… does anyone have a number that’s like… dangerously high? Or a significant concern? There’s a couple of different doctors on Youtube that claim they won’t treat their patients with an AI until it reaches 61, 62, 63. They said… they’d rather not use an AI.

The puffy nipple will.most likely go away. You talk about not being able to have a puffy nipple like its aids or something. Its a temporary response to a change in hormones not a big deal

There are no long term studies of men on TRT with higher than normal estrogen levels. A lot of these doctors on YouTube are aware that women have the advantage having higher estrogen levels and is why women suffer from less heart attacks, it’s thought than because men have lower estrogen than women that this is why men suffer from more heart attacks.

We are in uncharted territory here.

If you have not already seen this, you may find it interesting:

I feel like the ratio of T to E is what’s important

I’ve heard of this before but I don’t really know who to trust… heard conflicting information.

So basically you take the Total Testosterone and also the Estradiol… what Ratio is optimal? Thanks.