T Nation

Enough is Enough.

First, I’ve got to thank all of the members here. I’ve been reading for about a year, picking up tips and pointers, absorbing what I could, and reading real world product

reviews. Great site, great members, great products.

So here I am, just turned 20, weighing in at about 205 6’1". Broad build, but still carrying a few extra lbs. I’ve been training for about 5-6 years, the 3 years consistent

and serious. I’m down from 275 of pure chub, and still not satisfied with my body.

I was stuck at 220ish, for about a year, and finally broke through that barrier about 4 months ago getting me to where I am now. But, no matter how much more weight

I lose, I feel like I’ve still got the same gut. Granted, smaller, but still it haunts me.

And while this is, hands down, the best shape I’ve ever been in. I’m not happy, I’m not the best I can be, I’m sick of carrying this extra weight, I’m sick of seeing

genetic gods, juiced freaks, and magazine success stories.
Enough is enough, its time to push myself beyond the confines of my genetics.

So, I would like the help, wisdom, and experience that this forum and its members have to offer. Please, if you would, review my new game plan below.

My goal is to lean out through diet, cardio, and the addition of lean mass. I’ve gone this far without making myself a rubbery mass, I wont stop now. Natural and

jacked is my goal.

---- The Workout —

I want to get back to basics, I’ve tried every general style of lifting I know, from high reps and sets, to low power reps and sets, super sets, circuit training, you name

it… But when something isnt working, I strip it down, and get back to basics.

I personally like the old school thought mentality of Arnold, and his style of training, so this is a blend of Arnold, and a few programs around this forum.

Training Split:
Day 1: Chest/Back + Abs/Cardio
Day 2: Shoulders/Arms + Abs/ Cardio
Day 3: Legs/Calves
Day 4: OFF + Boxing
Day 5: Repeat C/B
Day 6: Repeat S/A
Day 7: OFF - Rest.
Day 8: Repeat. L/C… and so forth.
Each week starts with a new body part.

Day 1 - Chest/Back:
Hammer Flat Bench: 15,10,8,6,6
Incline DB Press: 15,10,8,6,6
Cable Flyes: 10-12 x3

TBar Rows: 15,10,8,6,6
V-Bar Pulldown: 15,10,8,6,6
Lat Pulldown (mid-grip): 6-8 x4
Straight Arm Pulldown: 10-12 x3

Hammer Shrugs: 15,10,8,6,6
Seated DB Shrugs: Burnout set to failure.

Day 2 - Shoulders/Arms:
Seated Overhead DB Press: 15,10,8,6,6
Hunched DB Side Laterals: 10-12 x3
Hammer Military Press: 15,10,8,6,6
Front Raises (45lb plate): 10-12 x3

Should I do bi’s or tri’s first after shoulders?

Hammer Seated Dips: 15,10,8,6,6
Cable Tricep Ext.: 10-12 x3

DB Curls: 15,10,8,6,6
Wide Grip Preacher Curls: 10-12x3

Day 3 - Legs/Calves:
Here is where my routine gets shaky… as you’ve probably noticed. I’ve never done deadlifts, and would prefer not to hurt myself. If I had someone to show me proper

form, then I’d work on them. So I substitute them with other things, as for squats… for whatever reason my knees ALWAYS hurt.

I have mild knee pain from my daily running regimen once in a while (2.5 miles, sprint/power walk combos). So basically this is what I’ve come up with… any

suggestions?

Hammer Squat: 15,10,8,6,6
Leg Press: 15,10,6,6,6
Leg Extension: 10-12x3 25x1
Leg Curls: 10-12x3 25x1
Leg Press Calf Raises: 15x4
Seated Calf Raises: 15x4

This has been the best combination of lifts I’ve used with minimal injury. But any and all suggestions are welcome.

— The Diet —

Meal 1 (pre-workout): 1/2 Packet Stallone Protein Lean Meal Option, 1/2 Cup Water, 1/2 Cup Soy Milk, 1/2 Cup Egg Whites, and 4-5 strawberries.

Energy Drink/Pill

Meal 2 (post-workout): 1/2 1/2 Packet Stallone Protein Lean Meal Option, 1.2 cup water, 1/2 cup 100% natural apple juice, 1 Graham cracker, and 1 tbsp glutamine

powder.

Meal 3: 2 Slices Whole Grain Bread, 1 Can of Tuna or 4 Slices Turkey, and mustard.

Meal 4 : 2 Scoops Whey, 1/2 Cup Water, 1/2 Cup Soy milk, 1 Banana

Meal 5: Varies. Usually a salad, chicken or red meat and veggies.

Meal 6 (desert, 1-2hours before sleep): 3 tbsp light cool whip, 1 Activ small plain yogurt, 1 scoop 100% whey, 1/4 cup granola, 1 tbsp peanut butter.


So what do you all think? This entire system is pretty open to modification. I lift, run, take a boxing class on one of my off days, I feel that I eat good.

What do I need to do, that I’m not doing, to shed this little bit of extra weight, and get jacked. Yeah I said jacked. I want to look like the effort I put forth. I leave the gym

almost ready to puke and drenched from head to toe. I want it to show in my physique.

Any questions, comments? I’ll take whatever I can get. I’m ready to step it up!

Well, first advice you should get is to drop the soy milk, use real milk instead. Soy has been proved to alter testosterone production, so you hinder muscle development. Do a search, there are good articles in here about that.

Congratulations on the progress you’ve made up to this point. I can’t imagine how much work it has taken you to shed almost 75 lbs. Very impressive.

You say in the first paragraph how you’ve spent the last year reading and absorbing information from this site. You compliment the contributers, the products, etc. After all of this you line out a program that is the polar opposite of anything anyone on this site would ever suggest.

You’ve studied the site, now apply your learning. Find a solid workout and try it. As far as the diet goes, where are the healthy fats/oils?

I’m not trying to be mean, but it doesn’t do you any good to “study” for a year and not be able to apply anything you’ve learned. Bottom line is this: you KNOW what to do. You know what you want the results to be. The question is, will you do what you KNOW you have to do to be successful?

lol Well that’s the last time I touch soy milk! haha

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:
Congratulations on the progress you’ve made up to this point. I can’t imagine how much work it has taken you to shed almost 75 lbs. Very impressive.

You say in the first paragraph how you’ve spent the last year reading and absorbing information from this site. You compliment the contributers, the products, etc. After all of this you line out a program that is the polar opposite of anything anyone on this site would ever suggest.

You’ve studied the site, now apply your learning. Find a solid workout and try it. As far as the diet goes, where are the healthy fats/oils?

I’m not trying to be mean, but it doesn’t do you any good to “study” for a year and not be able to apply anything you’ve learned. Bottom line is this: you KNOW what to do. You know what you want the results to be. The question is, will you do what you KNOW you have to do to be successful?[/quote]

My apologies, I left out my supplements. I was taking a universal animal pack each day (until I realised im allergic to something in it) and I have a handful of mixed nuts later in the day. I’ve also been taking HOT-ROX Extreme for about 2 months. I stopped this week.

I cant supplement just omegas and fatty acids, lol I guess im a sensitive guy and it shows up on my skin days later. I’ve just been trying to keep my protein intake up, and to eat clean and healthy.

As for my workout routine, I’ve made a slight alteration to it (T-Bar Rows instead of DB Rows, and the bicep portion as well.) But what would you critique about my routine? This is why I’ve posted it, I’m sure its not perfect, but it’s what I feel confident doing (injury free, and with good form) and I’ve had some success with in the past throughout my many different programs. I hope I dont sound like I’m defending myself too much, I def want to hear your opinions.

Looks like way too much to me… Not enough time for muscles to recover and grow. If you hit shoulders the day after chest then there a quite a few exercises there that will hit the anterior deltoids on concecutive days… not to mention the amount of work your triceps are going to get on both days.

I’d have at least a day between shoulders and chest and also I’d do fewer exercisesn and probably fewer sets. Best gains I ever made came as a result of cutting the amount of time I was in the gym rather than increasing it.

If you’re using a load of gear, you might get away with this routine IMO, but even then you’d get better results with less work and more rest. Just my opinion.

Best advice I can give is to start one of the pre-made templates from one of the trainers on here. Don’t sweat over picking one. Just pick one and follow it for a couple months at least. Let us know if things are beginning to progress the way you want them to. Report back sooner if something starts hurting and we can make adjustments.

As for diet, just try to stay at maintenance levels. Try to limit carbs to mostly fruits and vegetables. Some starchy carbs post workout would be ok.

NOIRtist-

You will see good progress off this routine but I don’t feel it’s optimal. Over the long haul, it’s best to learn how to do squats and deadlifts.

You won’t hurt yourself if you start light and learn the form. Start with box squats and learn how to sit back. Start with sumo deadlifts and keep an arch. Most of my beginner male clients can start off using 95 lbs on the box squat and 135 on the sumo deadlift with good form. I have them do multiple sets for high reps and we just add weight each week.

Also, I’d add in single leg work like reverse lunges, step ups or Bulgarian squats. Start off with bodyweight and begin holding onto dumbbells as time goes on.

As for your routine, I feel it’s a little complicated. I’d make it simpler. At your stage, if you worry so much about calves, abs, bi’s and tri’s, you don’t focus as much on going up on weight on squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc., which is what helps your body become a fat burning machine. If you want to be metabolically efficient, you have to build a fuel-burning machine, which means you must be very strong at compound lifts. This will help you lose your gut.

Your diet looks good.

I definitely don’t want to sound harsh nor do I want to put you on the defensive. As far as your workout goes, I don’t care for the rep schemes (starting at 15 going down to 6) for your major lifts. I also agree that some of your splits and volume do not agree with each other. As I suggested before I think you would benfit greatly by using a “template” workout from this site and putting your energy into doing hard and effectively. I personally have had great results from CT’s OVT and the New or advanced GVT. However, I think you could do well on a full body program to start out.

There are a lot of options in regard to healthy oils and fats. I think you are giving up on them too quickly. It is effective for fat loss, aids recovery (anti-inflamatory) and gets you in some good calories. If the only reason you don’t want to use them is because they give you oily skin, then you need to re-embrace that gung ho attitude you came in to this topic with. By stating you want to be one of those fit guys and invoking the likes of “Arnie” you are saying you’re ready to sell out to do what it takes to reach your goals. I’m not saying it requires resorting to steroids, but I certainly think that putting up with a few fish oil induced zits is not unreasonable.

Again, not trying to be heavy handed, but rather trying to poke at you with the stick of experience to see if you truly are ready to do what it takes to achieve your goals. A lot of people here will encourage, advise, and support you; ultimately you are the only one who can motivate yourself.

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:
As far as your workout goes, I don’t care for the rep schemes (starting at 15 going down to 6) for your major lifts. [/quote]

This is the only part I disagree with. I don’t see a problem with 15,10,8,6,6 so long as the 15,10 are pretty much warm-ups. I believe he is using them on his compounds to set up for the heavier weights. If this is the case, then I think they are fine. However, if he is taking them close to failure, then I retract my support of this scheme.

[quote]Modi wrote:
roofus_5 wrote:
As far as your workout goes, I don’t care for the rep schemes (starting at 15 going down to 6) for your major lifts.

This is the only part I disagree with. I don’t see a problem with 15,10,8,6,6 so long as the 15,10 are pretty much warm-ups. I believe he is using them on his compounds to set up for the heavier weights. If this is the case, then I think they are fine. However, if he is taking them close to failure, then I retract my support of this scheme.[/quote]

They’re warm ups mainly. Took the idea from an article about Ah-nuld here on T-Nation, “Return to the oak” i believe was the title? Something along those lines.

I trained my chest/back routine today, and it definitely didnt feel like too much. So I’m not sure that my routine is too complicated? However, it was definitely longer than usual. But I’m willing to deal with that. I may just decrease my rests inbetween sets to move things along.

Roofus, you may be right to a degree. However, 1/2 the purpose of my training is to look good. Zits would defeat the purpose of looking good. But, you made a good point in that there are many options. I should look in to alternatives that may not have the same affects on my skin, since apparently they are more important that I had given them credit for.

I will also switch my leg day with my shoulder day to give my upper body a day to recover. Good suggestion.

This routine is a combination of different routines ive found, the biggest contribution being from an Arnold routine which was more a full body but in typical Arnold fashion, an enormous workout that could be split in to different days. And I’d prefer not to use one of the templates, none that I’ve looked at really seemed to fit me.

And I’m glad to hear my diet is up to par, for the most part. The inclusion of some supps should help fill in the gaps.

It took me half the article to make sure I hadn’t written this article myself. We come from very similar situations and have very similar goals. Personally, I enjoy a total body workout, but that’s a whole different arguement. Good luck with your goals.

[quote]BigAlSwede wrote:
It took me half the article to make sure I hadn’t written this article myself. We come from very similar situations and have very similar goals. Personally, I enjoy a total body workout, but that’s a whole different arguement. Good luck with your goals. [/quote]

lol Thanks, and good luck to you as well.

I would suggest having A and B workouts for each part of your split, i.e., having the Day 5-6-8 workouts use different movement patterns for the same groups. For example, the Day 5 chest selection could be dips, dumbbell incline and neutral grip dumbbell flat. It keeps the gains coming and is mentally easier–worked well for me when I needed to put mass back on after a wrist injury.

I know someone who was in your situation.
My friend has been around 5’9 or 5’10 for the past 4 years. He’s gone from 250 to 210 in that time, put on a significant amount of lean mass, and made great gains in strength and overall athletic ability. But this fall he was still pretty chubby. Sure. He was still straight up just plain fat.

But the N.O. Xpload drink has helped him over the difficult hump in weight loss where losing another pound gets harder and harder. I think it might have just been the caffeine alone that provided the change he needed. If your fight with fat is anything like his I gotta say I admire your progress and I think your workout looks like one of the intense split-routines straight from the AnimalPak website. So switching things up with HOT-ROX or N.O. might just seal the deal.

Gregg Avedon, a fitness model, is also 205 6’1". He is in cover magazine shape (obviously).

So just to clarify, are you already lean and want to get shredded? Or do you have a significant amount of fat to lose?

I suspect the latter is true. The pareto principle often applies to many things in life. It states that 80% of your results, come from 20% of what you do. This means most of what you do is not helping you much. Good news is, you don’t need to do much to get mostly what you want. So the trick is to find the 20%, and really nail it.

I’d say there are four basic areas:

  • weight training
  • cardio
  • diet
  • sleep

If you’re goal is to lose a significant amount of fat, then cardio and diet are your main focus. You should spend most of your time thinking about cardio and diet, because that’s what will get you 80% of your results.

Cardio - do it, do it often. Sounds like your knees are bothering you. Pick something low impact so you can keep doing cardio. Shoot for 20-30 minutes and go from there. Do it often. Do it often. Do it often. And then do it some more.

Diet - eat clean. Self explanatory. Don’t over eat. You can eat clean, and still over eat. Eat to satisfy a hunger. Eat til you’re full.

Weights and sleep. Pick a routine from the many good routines out there. Don’t think about the reps, sets, etc. Just pick one and do it. Sleep when tired.

Keep it simple and make it easy on yourself.

Don Diesel, that sounds like a good idea. I’ll create an alternative for each day to keep the body guessing. Thanks!

Fighting, I’ve been on and off different stimulants for years. NO Xplode, Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Ephedrine/Caffiene stack, and HOT-ROX Extreme. To be honest, after about a week or so of all of them it seems to lose its punch. Hell, diet red bull, and redline, both seem to give me more extra intense energy for my workouts, so thats my latest secret weapon. The liquid energy drink. lol I havent been on the animal-pak site, but ill check it out. Maybe i can find some good alternatives for my B days on there. Thanks

DFI, if I had to give you a description, think football player. Big boy, with a little extra baggage. If I were to shred i would look jacked, not skinny and weak.
I fast walk/sprint 2 miles each day, and so far my knees can take it. Its heavy leg lifts when pain starts to show up in my overall routine. But ill fight through it. I was doing low impact and it just doesnt make me sweat and tire out like running does, so I feel thats what I gotta do. Run run and run some more. I try to get atleast 7-8 hours of sleep every night. And my diet is pretty solid. The only time it alters is on the weekends, where I up the carbs intake a little bit, usually sunday to keep my metabolism going strong. I used to have a cheat meal, but Im no longer going to do that.