T Nation

Endurance Athlete


#1

Age: 28
Weight: 172
Height: 6'4
BF: 10-12
Training Experience: 10 years cycling, 4 years seasonal weight training.
Diet: ~3500 kcal for low volume/intensity days. ~7000 for high volume/intensity days.
8 hours of sleep every night.


#2

Nolva would be a better choice for test boosting.

Also a lower dose could be used and still be effective compared to clomid, and nolva is more effect in its method of action anyways.

I believe that an SERM could have other benefits besides simply testosterone boosting properties, it technically acts as an estrogen in many parts of the body...because it is an estrogen...this could help prevent damage in the muscles from heavy training, which is not helpful to bodybuilders, but would be very useful for endurance training, as it would limit damage during training and during races.

This combined with a higher testosterone rate should lead to much faster recovery over baseline.

Well in theory anyways.

I don't feel an AI would be useful here, you'd be increasing test but also decreasing estrogen, increasing estrogenic compounds and estrogen (SERMs) while boosting test would seem more effective. Even properly controlled, your joints would likely receive more harm from even slightly reducing estrogen levels than your testosterone rates would benefit.

As your joints probably are crap anyways from extremely high workload in a limited range of motion...

Eating more fats and proteins would have a greater effect I believe, I assume your diet is heavily carbs, simply for energy.

Your body does require a certain amount of fat intake for optimum test production and absorption of vitamins, etc.

And protein...well thats obvious, but also can have an impact on test rates.

Heres the deal, if you use an SERM you need to cycle it, they aren't side effect free, we dont normally run them longer than 4 weeks, long term usage is not a good idea.

Im honestly not sure the cost to benefit ratio justifies usage unless you just want to use it for a few weeks before a big race, and during...

Even though that is cheating...and there is much BETTER ways to cheat anyways.

Really we are a bit out of our element here, we can help with proper diet, and to some extent drug usage...but you would do better on a forum more tailored for endurance sports.

We could care less about long distance cycling, and most could care less about aerobic activity beyond maybe a mile time trial.

This is a site about growing oversized muscles, and we would shoot ourselves if we were 6 foot and 155 pounds.


#3

  1. Yes this has been shown to happen to endurance athletes with high volumes of training. Lower your training load and begin some anaerobic training and weight training. Anaerobic work is excellent - lactic acid has been shown to be more effective than LH at inducing testosterone secretion in the testes by a number of researchers.

  2. Not sure

  3. I think you need to lower training volume first. The other factor is that cycling has been shown to actually damge the nerves supplying the penis and be a cause of impotence. (I have read it is common in the pro circuit)

  4. An intresting article you could pick up dealing with your subject exactly;

Fertil Steril. 1997 Apr;67(4):783-5. Links
Comment in:
Fertil Steril. 1997 Oct;68(4):745.
Idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in a male runner is reversed by clomiphene citrate.

Burge MR, Lanzi RA, Skarda ST, Eaton RP.
University of New Mexico School of Medicine, Department of Medicine/Endocrinology-5ACC, Albuquerque 87131, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To assess the efficacy of estrogen antagonist therapy on the function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis in a young male runner with significant morbidity attributable to idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. DESIGN: An uncontrolled case study. SETTING: The outpatient endocrinology clinic of a university tertiary referral center. PATIENT(S): A 29-year-old male who has run 50 to 90 miles per week since 15 years of age and who presented with a pelvic stress fracture, markedly decreased bone mineral density, and symptomatic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate (CC) at doses up to 50 mg two times per day over a 5-month period. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Serum concentrations of LH, FSH, and T before and after CC therapy, as well as clinical indicators of gonadal function. RESULT(S): Barely detectable levels of LH and FSH associated with hypogonadal levels of T were restored to the normal range with CC therapy. The patient experienced improved erectile function, increased testicular size and sexual hair growth, and an improved sense of well being. CONCLUSION(S): Exercise-induced hypogonadotropic hypogonadism exists as a clinical entity among male endurance athletes, and CC may provide a safe and effective treatment option for males with debilitating hypogonadism related to endurance exercise.


#4

High volume training is a neccesary component to be competative in my sport. There is only a period of 3-5 months where training volume is this high during the year. I do scale back my training volume for the shorter criterium races that fill the back half of the season. During this time my libido does return to normal.

I did buy fancy saddle made to relieve most of the pressure by moving the contact points to my sit bones instead of the soft tissue. It works quite well, my sit bones actually hurt like hell for the first few weeks I had it.

Assuming I will be keeping my training volume high for part of the year, would starting Clomid therapy at 50mg twice a day for 3-5 months have any contraindications I should be aware of?

Protocols on how to cycle the drug for my intended use seem non-existant. Does anybody have any knowledge on how this should be carried out. I'm not opposed to doing some extra reading if you could direct me the right way.


#5

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#6

LH secretion is normal in endurance trained men who demonstrate low levels of testosterone and testosterone secretion in response to HCG is approx 30% lower in endurance trained individuals than it is in sedentary men. It has been suggested that the excessive levels of cortisol produced during endurance training may have a direct impact on the testes. It appears that cortisol can disrupt the binding of LH in the testes and also inhibit some of the actual enzymes responsible for the production of testosterone in the testes. These effects of chronic over-training are long lived and it takes more than 3-weeks of reduced volume training before testosterone levels begin to increase.

The paper I quoted in my earlier post appears to be relatively rare - the runner had minimal LH levels and was not typical of normal athletes - as discussed in previous paragraph. I suggest you get your T and LH levels measured. If LH is low clomid may work for you. If LH is normal then your way forward has to be by means of reducing training or by a means reducing cortisol secretion (I am sure there are people on this forum who know of ways to do this?).

It may be though that reducing cortisol secretion is not a good idea for an endurance athlete. Despite its "bad" reputation cortisol is a very necessary hormone required for the adaptation of muscle fibers to be effective at endurance type events. It is also very necessary in that it ensures adequate energy supply during endurance events. Athletes who had their cortisol manipulated do not perform as well in endurance events. It has even been suggested that the decrease in testosterone that occurs in endurance training is itself necessary to ensure that muscle fibers do not hypertrophy and therefore maximises the ability of oxygen to diffuse quickly to mitochondria.

It seems to me there is a choice;

1) Accept your problems and be a good endurance athlete (and accept the long term problems including a fall in bone density etc)
2) Keep your training going and attempt to increase T by manipulating either LH or cortisol (depending on which is causing your problem) but as a result have a negative impact on your effective adaptation to your training.
3) Change your goals


#7

As for natural testosterone boosters, maybe try Activate Xtreme? It's on the expensive side but many people swear by it. Word is there is bloodwork posted on various forums that backs up the legitimacy of the product, although I haven't bothered to research it. I'm using it now and I think it's working but it could very well be in my head. Supposedly the key ingredient is Nettle Root, which can be purchased as a supplement on it's own for a little cheaper - Divanex which you should be able to snag up for about $30. I've heard that Activate Xtreme also includes something that is supposed to help control estrogen. But, from the same site that sells Divanex you could snag up some bulk Formestane which is an aromatase inhibitor. I have no experience with that compound and you should definitely do research on it before using it.

These are just ideas I'm throwing out there to give you products to do a little research on and come to your own conclusions. I am by no means saying the products I mentioned will be of significant benefit to you, and wouldn't be surprised if one of the board vets with strong knowledge of these products says not to bother (but also keep in mind some folks here might be a little bias against compounds outside the realm of AAS :wink: ).


#8

I can see that with just a few weeks of research my knowledge on the subject matter is unsufficent to safely carry out any kind of hormone therapy. After reading the advice given here I will put the focus into my diet and training and reevaluate a few years wiser.

Thanks for the help.

~Porksoda


#9

Bushidobadboy's suggestions are excellent, as always.
I would suggest/add Alpha Male and possibly Rez-V. Rez-V is excellent for overall health and would in a small way help regulate/minimize elevations in estrogen and support healthy/higher testosterone levels.

Beyond that Alpha Male is a great product. It will give you energy, increase recovery rate from your intense training sessions and keep Test levels up. More specifically it definitely raises my libibo level, which you are concerned about. Alpha Male has Tribulus in it along with other natural substances. I find Alpha Male very effective. Thank you again to Biotest for Alpha Male!