T Nation

Endomorph/FFB Nutrition


Hey guys,

Long story short, im a FFB(Former fat Boy) and a endomorph so fat gain is pretty easy when your me.

Now I manged to lose it all through starvation and running(forgive me I was young) but in the process lost any muscle mass I ever had.

Anyway I decided I would try and bulk and after 6 weeks I had gained about 20 pounds(about 4 were muscle) and thats even on a clean diet.

So im cutting down again and am going to give it another, must more controlled go.

My question is are there any guys in my shoes? Or guys that have been here i.e struggle with fat gain but still wanna ad muscle mass?

If so I would really appreciate any nutritional advice that seemed to help you along the way.

Any hints or tips you could give to a guy that packs on the adipose tissue faster than Jabba the hut.

Atm my diet is a 4 day carb cycle, I do 3 low days and then 1 highday.

My low days are
Kcal = 2400
P= 240 grams
C= 180 grams
f = 80 grams

And my highdays are:
Kcal= 2700
P= 270 grams
C= 203 grams
f= 90 grams

Also on a side note, im dying to know weather I should be counting carbs from vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower? If my carb highday is too low? Or if its still to high?

Simple things like this are really tearing my noodle apart.


How do you know you only gained 4 lbs of muscle and 16 lbs of fat? Did you make significant strength gains during the time you gained that weight? If not you need to learn to train harder to make sure the extra food you are eating is going to go to the right place.

Also once you get a base-line for food intake you don't need to count everything while trying to gain - this will just make you go crazy. Establish a base-line and every 2 weeks adjust. If you were gaining to your liking keep the food intake level the same, if you didn't gain enough increase the amounts a little bit, if you gained too much scale them back a little. I would not worry about counting carbs from vegtables either.


and what are/were you eating?


on HIGH CARB days fats should be a 0 (well trace amounts that you just get from stuff like whey and chicken breast)

no dont worry about the carbs from those veggies


did you bother to read the posts in last thread you started?


I was thinking "man this all sounds really familiar..."



I bet OP has already given up on this thread as well.


I'm still unsure and surprised that people with so little experience, strength, muscle mass, competence in designing the most basic routines and diets, and monitoring of their own bodies bother with sophisticated shit like carb cycling.

Never, never, NEVER ceases to amaze me!


I'm I reading this right? 23 grams of carbs separate your high and low days? How about 300 on high days and 100 or 150 on low days adjusting fat accordingly.


How about he learn how to lean out, maintain, or gain with a REGULAR diet.


but did you forget the more complicated you make something, the more effective it becomes?


Of course man, that's why Inception was such a good movie.


Well, I've been around long enough to know that he won't take that route. All these protocols sound too cool to not try. I'm just trying to help. It's like leading the blind though :frowning:



Lol, right lets tackle one thing at a time here:P

As for the thread sounding familiar, yeah its pretty much the exact same thread and the reason for is I can find the other one:( Trust me I seriously wish that wasnt a joke but for some reason when ever I tried to access it, the page would give me the good old "where you looking for something?" so I thought id try again. Sorry if it came across like I was just ignorant:)

Ok next, waldo21212

I dont know that it was exactly 16 lbs of fat but what I can tell you is that my bf % made an increase from 9% too 19% in 6 weeks, also my waist went from a 31 too a 36. So while it may not have all been fat there was certinaly more than I bargained for(it was still my own fault though for being lazy). As for the strenght gains, I did feel like I made some great progress, I managed to add about 30 pounds to my bench and a wooping 60 pounds to my squat which made me really happy. Thank you for the advice on how to manage things, its really appreciated.

Next, caveman101

Im eating a diet that consits of mainly chicken(white meat), Lamb Liver, Lean steak i.e. Sirlion, Eggs and egg whites, pink salmon, tuna and whey protein.

My fats come mainly from my meats and if im lacking I will use olive oil or fish oil(fish oil more often than not).

My carbs were from Oatmeal, beans(kidney, chick peas), fruit, vegetables and occasionally brown rice or some potato's.

Next, MAF14

Thanks for the advice on a highcarb day, I keep the fats in because I just dont think id deal well with that many carbs, even on a high carb day.


Yeah your reading right dude, Im being abit of a pussy about it because I just cant seem to commit myself to a proper highcarb day.

Basically I dont trust myself to endulge in all those carbs and not suffer for it, which I know is fucking insane I know:(

Next, Bricknyce

Im sorry I totally horrified you dude, I got the idea from Tom Venuto's BFFM as it seemed like a simple idea I could use in my diet seeing as I never dealt with carbs well.

I know that normal Kcal dedicate and H.I.T would probably yield the same result but from everything I read it was predominant that carb cycling was the best method out there for shedding body fat as is stated in a good few of the articles on this site.

Alas your probably right, I dont have that much experiance and am probably getting well ahead of myself.

And lastly, sorry for subjecting you to my stupidity guys, but Im young and new and trying to figure out what works so all your advice is a great help:)





Thanks for the thread location dude but the problem is that the site wont let me access it, thats why I ended up starting a whole new thread.

Like when I try to use the link you gave me it sends me to an error page saying "Where you looking for something?"

Thanks anyway dude:)


You're not stupid. But you are gettign ahead of yourself.

And you're forgiven for horrifying me. But I'm only forgiving because I'm a nice person. It was great horror. LOL!



I figured I was getting ahead of myself but I was rationalizing it by saying " Me: well if a normal diet would work, then surly this super awesome diet would be better! Little Voice: But David, youve only been into this seriously for 6 months if even, your about as wet behind the ears as they come. Me: Silence voice, I am 19 there for I know all and will do it the best way i.e. my way".

Thanks for forgiving me dude, and yeah it probably was pretty horrific reading it :stuck_out_tongue: But I plead youth and a lack of older, wiser lifters in my life!



Thanks for forgiving me dude, I know I scared you something fierce :stuck_out_tongue: but I plead youth and a lack of older, wiser lifters in my life to give me some direction lol.

And I know im getting ahead of myself but being a teen the inner dialog kinda went along the lines of "Little voice: David, why dont you stick to a simple diet until you figure your body out for yourself? Me: Silence you! I am god and know all there for I will it things my way." Little voice: Sigh, fine be an idiot:( Me: Why thank you, I will......... wait, what did you call me?"

Hmm, you know I think I was going some where with that:P