Okay, so 28y/o and I started my first cycle. And I thought I was pretty researched and had an idea with what I was doing but the more I research the more contradictory the info becomes and the more I realize I was unprepared. So I started at 500 test e/ 400 deca. Increased at about week 6 to 600/400. No AI, No HCG, No SERM during. With the exception of about week 4 or 5 I noticed my nips where slightly sensitive(possibly just in my head). I panicked a bit and took some of my AI and a bit of my chlomid for about a week. I’ve learned Since that Both where at dosages too high.Seemed like it went away. So again I only took it about a week. About week 71/2 or 8 I started noticing very STRONG emotional sides and a little increased acne on the back. I had intended to go about 16 weeks but the emotional stuff got so bad I decided to end it at 10. I stopped taking decca at week 8. And started to taper my test. After reading some forum and and getting “advice” from “experienced” users, I started my AI about 25mg EOD at that time to help with some of the E sides. And week 9 I’ve started hcg. I did 500mg EOD (only 2 doses so far) but about to switch to 250 eod after more research about desensitization. Now my testes atrophied quite a bit while on so I’m a little concenred there. My plan was to run hcg at 250 eod till week 12, continue AI at same dosage throught, and start my chlomid( I have it down somewhere but I believe the dose is about 25mg every day) at about week 12 a about 4-5 days days after last hcg dose. And run that for 4 weeks. I’m concerned I’ve messed myself up and could use some help here. And no blood work through so flying blind there but I’m working on that and should have some soon. I’ve been as honest as possible so try not to rip me too badly for being under educated and jumping into something I wasn’t totally knowledgeable on. I’m sure some have been there and can relate but i need some experienced advice at this point.
The hcg dose is always up for debate, but I would try 500iu twice a week until your testes come back to life (probably another week or two). When you’re four weeks out from your last deca shot you should start your SERM. Clomid is weaker than Nolva, so you’ll need to start at 50mg/d and so that for two weeks, then dip to 25mg/d for the last two weeks. That’s your best bet with the stuff you have on hand.
Edit: don’t keep taking your AI for the love of God. You shouldn’t need it and you’re going to smash your e2, which will be very unpleasant.
Ok so first we need you to clarify your doses. You said you took 25mg of AI EOD? What AI is that? Hopefully not arimadex … that or you meant .25mg. Same thing with HCG, you don’t dose it in mg… its IU. Please clarify.
You likely experienced one of two things… 1) Deca can cause neurological issues in addition to ED 2) You took too much AI and used Clomid which could cause the anxiety and emotional issues. I’m thinking its was more likely number 2.
If you just started the HCG and stopped cycling… run it for (2) more weeks then stop the HCG. Start your PCT for (4) weeks after stopping the HCG.
.25 not 25 and yes 500iu not mg.
10-4 that makes more sense. I would continue the HCG for a couple weeks then start your PCT.
And stop AI? Can anyone second that? First time I’ve heard that. And if so should it be started back up during pct? And if Chlomid could possibly be the culprit (I’ve read quite a bit about it affecting people) should I go ahead and get some Nolva or is it most likely the higher dosage I took?
Stop the AI for sure. @iron_yuppie
Iron could jump in here. He is more knowledgeable than I and gave solid advice as well.
You don’t need an AI when you’re off of aromatizing drugs. You’re basically pushing down e2 when it isn’t elevated, which ends up making you feel like absolute shit really quickly.
The whole point of pct is to get back to normal. When your testosterone is recovering from zero to something above zero you’re going to have aromatization just as you would if you were a normal, healthy man. You didn’t need an AI just randomly before you cycled, did you? (You didn’t) Your body produces testosterone and some of it gets converted to e2. Happens every single day. So that process will happen while you’re recovery on pct. E2 may run a little ahead in some cases, but if you crash it by taking an AI you’ll be dealing with the side effects of that for weeks. No bueno.
Also, FWIW taking an AI to combat the e2 elevation caused by hcg doesn’t work. Hcg causes aromatization intratesticularly, so you can’t stop it from happening. This is why I’m hesitant to tell guys to use a lot of hcg. It’s hard to control in larger doses despite being really useful.
Awesome. This is exactly the help I was looking for. Will change protocol to fit. ANd any advice on the change from chlomid to Nolva. Or just stick with the chlomid.
I’m not a PCT guy anymore due to TRT. When I was … I ran clomid with no issues. However, of the two, nolva has less sides. Typical nolva is 40/40/20/20 for PCT month.
HCG is great stuff… IMO on cycle & off I take 250 shots untill my nards feel fine… Sometime you need a 3 shots a week sometimes 1 or two is fine. I just use common sense if they hurt and look like a 8ry olds sack then bump dose… If they dont hurt and look like a mans bag yur g2g
Poster why did you start out with such a high deca dose with no caber? Also a newb cycle of just 500 test would have been fine… Then cycle #2 500test 200deca woulda been fine… No Anastrozle and no Caber your research was shit… Your lucky your not GF didnt dump you for having noodle D
Ive been cycling for years and just tried NPP for first time going 600 test & 300 npp working great…Why you new guys go so hard is beyond me… Where do you go 10yrs down the road?? Nobody does just one cycle… Just like nobody eats one potato chip or snorts just one line… c’mon man
I was a little over zealous, and yep my research was shit. I didn’t realize it was such an aggressive dosage. I’ll say this much, it has been one hell of a learning experience.