I stopped the androgel Thur and I can feel the difference. Nothing dramatic but a little change none the less. I assume that will change when the enanthate kicks in.
I hope it will be for the better. I just want to get back to feeling like washing the car, or at least taking it to the car wash. LOL. Spending a lot of time on the couch. I was considering trying the Testim like yourself just for a change but I figured it would be the same. I hope this route works. Thanks
The info about total and free t was good. Thanks. I looked up my shbg and it seemed ok. Was 25. I just went over 4 different blood tests comparing ft to tt and one test had t4. I think I’ve had enough for the night.
[quote]olderguy wrote:
I guess what I am asking is will the t have a different effect on a guy like me that is 54 than a guy say 35? [/quote]
I think that the issue is how low one has become and how long. The lack of T and duration creates some effects that look like aging. When T is restored, cells have to respond and tissues need to remodel, the brain changes and brain patterns will change, but the longer one has been on low T, the deeper the changes are.
I know that my t was ok up until about 2yrs ago. 3 or 4 yrs ago my md told me my t was fine. I also was lifting ok. I was benching 250 on a Smith and had a strong back. An injury kept me out of the gym for a year and am getting back to form albiet a little older. But my t was low for only 12 to 16 mo. Thanks
olderguy - read read read! Good stuff
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=824365
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1313567
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1309859
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1200966
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1147892
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1135091
Doesn’t test enanthate have a half life of 10.5 days? Shouldn’t once a week injections be good enough to maintain stable blood levels on an enanthate ester?
Doesn’t test enanthate have a half life of 10.5 days? Shouldn’t once a week injections be good enough to maintain stable blood levels on an enanthate ester?
I hope that is the case. I am looking to just take 125mg=1/2ml a week. My first dose was 250mg, but I am going to cut back. I stopped the androgel, Thursday last dose and took enanthate Thursday night. So far so good. Played racquet ball yesterday and 2hrs today. I don’t know if any of you are over 50 who is taking Eth and am not sure if it matters. I have been reading as much as possible but it is a lot to absorbe.
I want to take as low a dose as possible as to not have problems with est and other things I’ve read. I do feel a little different for the better from no Androgel for 3 days. I don’t know if it a mind thing or what but I will take it. Hope nothing changes in the next 2 wks for the worse.
Thanks T-nick. I have been reading about the androgel and now I am wondering if I should just stay on it. But I think I will try 125mg ent for 2 mo and see how it works. I hope no probs with the est and shrinking gonads, sore breasts and all that goes with it. A lot of the info is conflicting but it seems like you guys know more about this than my MD. And you probably do. LOL.
There are so many factors, age, situation that got you to low t, stress, which I have alot of, etc, etc. So for me I think it comes down to trying it in moderation and I can always go back on the androgel in two months. My luck I will need a bra and two golf balls in my shorts. LOL. Thanks
[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
I took testim (same as androgel) at 5g and 10g/day and still felt like shit. I started enanthate 100mg/wk and felt f-ing spectacular. No more depression, better motivation, much better sex drive, etc. The injections made a huge difference over the gels. You might want to give it a try since it sounds like you’re where I used to be with the gels. [/quote]
Did you have any problems with est at that level? I have a friend doing 200mg a week for years with no est probs. How have you made out? Needless to say I would prefer not to be taking the other meds. Feeling f-ing spectacular with 1 dose a weed would be great. Also, how long can you stay on those levels? As in are you cycling or staying with that for prolonged periods?
[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
I took testim (same as androgel) at 5g and 10g/day and still felt like shit. I started enanthate 100mg/wk and felt f-ing spectacular. No more depression, better motivation, much better sex drive, etc. The injections made a huge difference over the gels. You might want to give it a try since it sounds like you’re where I used to be with the gels. [/quote]
Also, I stopped the androgel the day I started ent. Was that a wise thing to do? I know I should have asked before I did it but hey. It was thurs the 14th. I was expecting the ent to kick in as the andro left my body. Like a schmuck, I’m asking now after being off the andro for 3 days. I played 2hrs of racquet ball today and feel pretty good. I imagine that can change rapidly. Thanks
[quote]olderguy wrote:
Also, how long can you stay on those levels? As in are you cycling or staying with that for prolonged periods?[/quote]
TRT doses are just that, replacing with normal hormone levels and that can be done for the rest of your life. No need to cycle. If you don’t want your HPTA, LH and testes shut down, you need to take HCG, which also improved mood for many. HCG can be quite cheap.
Est problems? Depends on your needs and objectives. E does not need to be abnormal to be causing libido and other problems. Everyone is different. I was taking 100mg test cyp per week, added HCG and felt better but things were not right. E was upper mid-range normal. Have been on arimidex/anastrozole for just about 2 months and things have been getting better and better. Wife and I both scored 10’s yesterday and almost as good the day before. I have started with some amino acids and those may be helping as well. I don’t know if things will stay this good or keep getting better, but I think that I would feel like I was in hell with only T. Be careful what you wish upon yourself.
[quote]olderguy wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
I took testim (same as androgel) at 5g and 10g/day and still felt like shit. I started enanthate 100mg/wk and felt f-ing spectacular. No more depression, better motivation, much better sex drive, etc. The injections made a huge difference over the gels. You might want to give it a try since it sounds like you’re where I used to be with the gels.
Also, I stopped the androgel the day I started ent. Was that a wise thing to do? I know I should have asked before I did it but hey. It was thurs the 14th. I was expecting the ent to kick in as the andro left my body. Like a schmuck, I’m asking now after being off the andro for 3 days. I played 2hrs of racquet ball today and feel pretty good. I imagine that can change rapidly. Thanks[/quote]
You could have overlapped by one day. the injection kicks in fast and you will feel the injections in 1 or 2 days, but that might take a while to get responsive as cells need to change gene transcription and will get more responsive. For many early response can be very intense, especially sexually, that changes as SHBG and E come to spoil the fun. And the down time at the end of weekly cycles can get longer and longer until the down side is 7 days long and you can’t feel a lift when you do inject. Sort of like being a junkie I guess. But when that happens, more T will not solve the problem. More than one injection per week can make things better for some by creating even levels. The peaks of larger doses further apart can create larger levels of E and SHBG. A T roller coaster is not natural.
After injecting for 2 months you should have a good feeling about where things are and headed.
You can have, for some, more T than you ever had when young and still feel like crap. You know the T is that high as you can build muscle and grow hair in new places. But high T is not enough, so taking more will not necessarily help. Many things need to be in balance with the T… and other hormones and drugs can help you get there.
Everyone is different, be open minded to what you may need. Keep notes about what is going on. A good doc wants to hear how things are going from many aspects and its better if you feed instead of him fishing for clues. If you are excited to be meeting your doc to discuss the good and the bad, be sure to point out how you normally feel and act if you are usually down… he needs to know that.
[quote]KSman wrote:
olderguy wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
I took testim (same as androgel) at 5g and 10g/day and still felt like shit. I started enanthate 100mg/wk and felt f-ing spectacular. No more depression, better motivation, much better sex drive, etc. The injections made a huge difference over the gels. You might want to give it a try since it sounds like you’re where I used to be with the gels.
Also, I stopped the androgel the day I started ent. Was that a wise thing to do? I know I should have asked before I did it but hey. It was thurs the 14th. I was expecting the ent to kick in as the andro left my body. Like a schmuck, I’m asking now after being off the andro for 3 days. I played 2hrs of racquet ball today and feel pretty good. I imagine that can change rapidly. Thanks
You could have overlapped by one day. the injection kicks in fast and you will feel the injections in 1 or 2 days, but that might take a while to get responsive as cells need to change gene transcription and will get more responsive. For many early response can be very intense, especially sexually, that changes as SHBG and E come to spoil the fun. And the down time at the end of weekly cycles can get longer and longer until the down side is 7 days long and you can’t feel a lift when you do inject. Sort of like being a junkie I guess. But when that happens, more T will not solve the problem. More than one injection per week can make things better for some by creating even levels. The peaks of larger doses further apart can create larger levels of E and SHBG. A T roller coaster is not natural.
After injecting for 2 months you should have a good feeling about where things are and headed.
You can have, for some, more T than you ever had when young and still feel like crap. You know the T is that high as you can build muscle and grow hair in new places. But high T is not enough, so taking more will not necessarily help. Many things need to be in balance with the T… and other hormones and drugs can help you get there.
Everyone is different, be open minded to what you may need. Keep notes about what is going on. A good doc wants to hear how things are going from many aspects and its better if you feed instead of him fishing for clues. If you are excited to be meeting your doc to discuss the good and the bad, be sure to point out how you normally feel and act if you are usually down… he needs to know that.
[/quote]
I have to say that I am more relaxed in the last 2 days and I assume that is from no androgel. I also hope the ent has kicked in a little. As I said, I did 250mg enanthate on thursday and plan to do 100 a week. Will have to do the math as my bottle is 250mg=1ml. And I guess going from first injection of 250 to 100 isn’t going to have that much of an effect.
Again, I’m am certainly GUESSING. I am reading as much as my meager brain can handle so hopefuly, like you say, in a month or so I might see the bigger picture and have a little more insight. I got a semi sitting on the couch this afternoon so that is a step in the right direction. I’m keeping in mind the twice a wk thing but for now I think I am going to do the once a wk and take it from there. 3 days but so far so good. Thanks
[quote]T-Nick wrote:
olderguy - read read read! Good stuff
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=824365
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1313567
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1309859
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1200966
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1147892
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1135091
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461891
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=899116[/quote]
That was great. I was able to print the post where Cy explains what all of the blood work means.
Now I have something to compare to. I have been on other sites looking for explainations and this was by far the best. Reasons for high and low levels.
Thanks again.
[quote]olderguy wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
olderguy - read read read! Good stuff
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=824365
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1313567
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1309859
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1200966
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1147892
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1135091
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461891
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=899116
That was great. I was able to print the post where Cy explains what all of the blood work means.
Now I have something to compare to. I have been on other sites looking for explainations and this was by far the best. Reasons for high and low levels.
Thanks again.[/quote]
No problem, always lookin to help. Ive got tons more stuff that Cy has written on plus alot of stuff Ive picked up bookmarked on my PC as well. But that should sum it up well there.
I also forwarded you some great PM’s that ksman sent me detailing TRT. The guy flat out knows his shit. It should help immensly.
KSman helped me alot. When you first get involved in this there is a lot to grasp as I said before.
I want to keep in shape but it is really to not feel like shit like I did on Angrogel. I am going to do 125mg/1/2 ml a week and see how that works. Comming off of 5 mg Andro took my first shot whigh was 250mg and due for another tomorrow which will be 125.
Things should be fine. A week off the Andro and I feel a lot better, which is what I wanted. I feel human.
I know it is early on but keeping positive. And with the blood work summary, I can keep track a little better. I will read those links. Thanks
Hey KSman, I hope everything is going OK. I took my second injection yesterday. My initial was 250mg last Thur. I had wanted to cut down as per your post and others so yesterday I took 125mg. My bottle is 250/1ml. I am wondering if I can do a schedule of last Thur, this Wed, next Tues, and so on @ 125 mg? Is this feasible or should I just stay on the same day every week.? I just thought this might help not having to do twice a wk shots at half the dose each. What do I know?
[quote]olderguy wrote:
Hey KSman, I hope everything is going OK. I took my second injection yesterday. My initial was 250mg last Thur. I had wanted to cut down as per your post and others so yesterday I took 125mg. My bottle is 250/1ml. I am wondering if I can do a schedule of last Thur, this Wed, next Tues, and so on @ 125 mg? Is this feasible or should I just stay on the same day every week.? I just thought this might help not having to do twice a wk shots at half the dose each. What do I know?[/quote]
So you are thinking of injecting every 6th day. That will be 146mg/week. That still might be too much. You are not reducing the spikes that promote SHBG and E.
I can’t see that every 6th day is going to make much difference other than increase your weekly dose by 17% above 125mg/wk. For frequent injections, you would want small needles and syringes. These can be more comfortable. And for small injected volumes, the IM depth does not need to be very deep.
If your skin+fat is thin on your upper outer leg (vastus lateralis), 1/2" needles are long enough. You can go as you are for a while, but if you later find that the down time at the end of the week gets longer and longer, you may need to do something else to get out of that trap. Meanwhile, you should have a nice 4 weeks 
I am only on my second injection, 250mg 1st and 125 second. But just being off that f-king androgel has mad a big difference. Since I get home @ 1 to 2 I work out and shower early. Less absorption and on days I don’t workout something different. I don’t know about you, but the androgel made me feel very shitty. No appetite, depressed, and only a week later I feel like a different guy. Hope it keeps up.
[quote]KSman wrote:
olderguy wrote:
Hey KSman, I hope everything is going OK. I took my second injection yesterday. My initial was 250mg last Thur. I had wanted to cut down as per your post and others so yesterday I took 125mg. My bottle is 250/1ml. I am wondering if I can do a schedule of last Thur, this Wed, next Tues, and so on @ 125 mg? Is this feasible or should I just stay on the same day every week.? I just thought this might help not having to do twice a wk shots at half the dose each. What do I know?
So you are thinking of injecting every 6th day. That will be 146mg/week. That still might be too much. You are not reducing the spikes that promote SHBG and E.
I can’t see that every 6th day is going to make much difference other than increase your weekly dose by 17% above 125mg/wk. For frequent injections, you would want small needles and syringes. These can be more comfortable. And for small injected volumes, the IM depth does not need to be very deep.
If your skin+fat is thin on your upper outer leg (vastus lateralis), 1/2" needles are long enough. You can go as you are for a while, but if you later find that the down time at the end of the week gets longer and longer, you may need to do something else to get out of that trap. Meanwhile, you should have a nice 4 weeks ;)[/quote]
Thanks. Do you think that going from initial 250 back to 125 will make a difference? I have a cold and feel like crap. Like I said I don’t know if my body is adjusting from androgel and now adjusting from 1 shot @ 250 and then the 125. I am going to take your advice and do the 125wk on the same day, Wed, for a month and see how it works. I am using 1" 23 gauge. in upper hip. Probably should use thigh next time and not go as deep.