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Elliot Hulse Inspired Routine Idea

Hey folks,

I watched the below Elliot Hulse video and it intrigued me, as I’m really into minimalist-type routines. It basically says that the only 4 exercises you need are front squats, deadlifts, dips and chins.

I’d switch deadlifts with kettlebell swings, because I have a very dodgy lower back and I really like the effect swings have on my hamstrings.

I was thinking of running it as 3x a week fullbody days and rotating between 10x3, 5x5 and 4x8 over the course of a long period of time.

Goals are pretty non-specific. I want to get bigger and more athletic, and I feel that this will be good for me because I thrive on basic routines (and I absolutely suck at front squats).

I basically wanted to hear people’s thoughts and criticisms on the idea.

Thanks!

I think that if he only advocates 4 movements, and you switch out 25% of those movements, you’re not going to enjoy the benefits of it. Abbreviated training is awesome, but it means you really can’t be making any adjustments or swapping, because every movement is geared to get the absolute most bang for your buck, and the KB swing is no substitute for the deadlift.

If your lower back is dodgy, you won’t fix that by avoiding training it. Get it stronger.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I think that if he only advocates 4 movements, and you switch out 25% of those movements, you’re not going to enjoy the benefits of it. Abbreviated training is awesome, but it means you really can’t be making any adjustments or swapping, because every movement is geared to get the absolute most bang for your buck, and the KB swing is no substitute for the deadlift.

If your lower back is dodgy, you won’t fix that by avoiding training it. Get it stronger.[/quote]

Thanks for the input T3hPwnisher, I always really appreciate your advice. I think you are right, I should work on fixing the issue instead of avoiding it.

Besides that substitution can you think of any other flaws?

I should add that for the dips I would use rings and for the chins I would do sternum-chins to get some semblance of a row movement in there. I’d add weight to both. I’d also tack some facepulls at the end of each session for shoulder development and health.

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I think that if he only advocates 4 movements, and you switch out 25% of those movements, you’re not going to enjoy the benefits of it. Abbreviated training is awesome, but it means you really can’t be making any adjustments or swapping, because every movement is geared to get the absolute most bang for your buck, and the KB swing is no substitute for the deadlift.

If your lower back is dodgy, you won’t fix that by avoiding training it. Get it stronger.[/quote]

Thanks for the input T3hPwnisher, I always really appreciate your advice. I think you are right, I should work on fixing the issue instead of avoiding it.

Besides that substitution can you think of any other flaws?

I should add that for the dips I would use rings and for the chins I would do sternum-chins to get some semblance of a row movement in there. I’d add weight to both. I’d also tack some facepulls at the end of each session for shoulder development and health.[/quote]

doing the dips on rings will reduce the external load you can handle. Sternum-chins will reduce the number of reps you can get. Facepulls probably aren’t a problem. Why don’t you just do it straight? Why modify anything at all? (Unless rings are the only dip mechanism you have.)

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I think that if he only advocates 4 movements, and you switch out 25% of those movements, you’re not going to enjoy the benefits of it. Abbreviated training is awesome, but it means you really can’t be making any adjustments or swapping, because every movement is geared to get the absolute most bang for your buck, and the KB swing is no substitute for the deadlift.

If your lower back is dodgy, you won’t fix that by avoiding training it. Get it stronger.[/quote]

Thanks for the input T3hPwnisher, I always really appreciate your advice. I think you are right, I should work on fixing the issue instead of avoiding it.

Besides that substitution can you think of any other flaws?

I should add that for the dips I would use rings and for the chins I would do sternum-chins to get some semblance of a row movement in there. I’d add weight to both. I’d also tack some facepulls at the end of each session for shoulder development and health.[/quote]

doing the dips on rings will reduce the external load you can handle. Sternum-chins will reduce the number of reps you can get. Facepulls probably aren’t a problem. Why don’t you just do it straight? Why modify anything at all? (Unless rings are the only dip mechanism you have.)[/quote]

Thanks for the input flipcollar. In the video he actually says dip and chin variations, rather than strictly the standard versions.

I see what you mean about the sternum chins though, and I think you are right, but I’ll stick with the ring dips - I really prefer the movement and feel a much better contraction with it.

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I think that if he only advocates 4 movements, and you switch out 25% of those movements, you’re not going to enjoy the benefits of it. Abbreviated training is awesome, but it means you really can’t be making any adjustments or swapping, because every movement is geared to get the absolute most bang for your buck, and the KB swing is no substitute for the deadlift.

If your lower back is dodgy, you won’t fix that by avoiding training it. Get it stronger.[/quote]

Thanks for the input T3hPwnisher, I always really appreciate your advice. I think you are right, I should work on fixing the issue instead of avoiding it.

Besides that substitution can you think of any other flaws?

I should add that for the dips I would use rings and for the chins I would do sternum-chins to get some semblance of a row movement in there. I’d add weight to both. I’d also tack some facepulls at the end of each session for shoulder development and health.[/quote]

Those are good movements, and will develop some strength and size. Ironmind had the “Squat-dip-chin” program out for a long while, and it’s a similar premise.

Above all, I would say pick movements only due to their ability to make you bigger and stronger. When you say you want to do sternum chins to get some semblance of a row movement, ensure that getting that row movement is in turn getting you bigger and stronger, rather than having the row movement be the end in and of itself.

Definitely wouldn’t substitute anything. KB swings are miles away from a deadlift. I don’t know the specifics of your low back issue, but I would do anything in my power to find my way back to deadlifting.

For the dips, how many ring dips can you do? Not a criticism of you or ring dips obviously, but just gotta make sure you can rep out enough of them to elicit growth.

Also do 4x9 instead of 4x8. 4x8 just feels wrong :slight_smile:

[quote]csulli wrote:
elicit growth[/quote]

*elicit illicit growth

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
elicit growth[/quote]

*elicit illicit growth
[/quote]
hue hue hue

Thanks a lot for the input guys, I’ll work on sorting out my deadlift issues.

I have one more question: I got the idea of cycling through 10x3, 5x5 and 4x8 from reading Alpha’s log and I haven’t tried cycling rep schemes like that before. Would it be advisable to stick with the same rep sceme for all lifts at the same time (eg do a block of 10x3 on everything, followed by a block of 5x5 on everything etc) or should I mix it up (eg do 10x3 deadlifts with 4x8 dips). The reason I ask is because of the timing of sessions: doing 10x3 on multiple exercises would take a good length of time and I’m not sure I could keep up the intensity, whereas doing the same with 4x8 would be really brief.

Also what sort of time frame is it good to stick with each rep scheme for? I was thinking of roughly 2 months on each one, but playing it by ear depending on how I was progressing.

T3hPwnisher: You are right I was probably thinking of rowing for the sake of rowing, rather than for my end-goal. I’ll stick with regular chins.

Csulli: Haha ok, for you I’ll switch it to 4x9.

[quote]csulli wrote:
For the dips, how many ring dips can you do? Not a criticism of you or ring dips obviously, but just gotta make sure you can rep out enough of them to elicit growth.

[/quote]

Sorry I missed this!

In my session yesterday I did 5 sets of 4, which obviously isn’t great, but I’ve only just started the movement and I believe I’ll improve quite quickly initially as I get the technique etc.

I haven’t done parallel bar dips in ages, but fresh I think I could get 12 or so.

[quote]furo wrote:
Hey folks,

Goals are pretty non-specific. I want to get bigger and more athletic, and I feel that this will be good for me because I thrive on basic routines (and I absolutely suck at front squats).

I basically wanted to hear people’s thoughts and criticisms on the idea.

[/quote]
I would add in a loaded carry variation at the end of each workout.
Farmers walks are the king. Done heavy enough for a long enough distance, you will catch the attention of the cardio bunny you’ve been eyeing;)

Jokes aside… They are actually pretty draining if done right. From my own experience, I would only add these once a week and put in another carry variation for the other days. Give the articles below a read to find the other variations that fit you best. It might take some experimenting.

Colby

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
For the dips, how many ring dips can you do? Not a criticism of you or ring dips obviously, but just gotta make sure you can rep out enough of them to elicit growth.

[/quote]

Sorry I missed this!

In my session yesterday I did 5 sets of 4, which obviously isn’t great, but I’ve only just started the movement and I believe I’ll improve quite quickly initially as I get the technique etc.

I haven’t done parallel bar dips in ages, but fresh I think I could get 12 or so.[/quote]

This is exactly why I suggested not using rings. That’s an enormous disparity. Technique only goes so far, ring dips aren’t exactly rocket science. Could you do some of both maybe? To work in different rep ranges?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
For the dips, how many ring dips can you do? Not a criticism of you or ring dips obviously, but just gotta make sure you can rep out enough of them to elicit growth.

[/quote]

Sorry I missed this!

In my session yesterday I did 5 sets of 4, which obviously isn’t great, but I’ve only just started the movement and I believe I’ll improve quite quickly initially as I get the technique etc.

EDIT: Or I could do 8 weeks or weighted standard dips followed by 8 weeks of ring dips. That way when I started the ring dips I could go straight into higher reps. Which would be better do you think?

EDIT: Or alternatively I could do weighted standard dips for the first 8 weeks, then switch to ring dips for the following 8 weeks. That way when I switch to the ring dips I should be able to go straight in to higher reps. Which do you think would be better?

I haven’t done parallel bar dips in ages, but fresh I think I could get 12 or so.[/quote]

This is exactly why I suggested not using rings. That’s an enormous disparity. Technique only goes so far, ring dips aren’t exactly rocket science. Could you do some of both maybe? To work in different rep ranges?[/quote]

That’s a really good idea, thanks. I could alternate between bodyweight ring dips and weighted parallel bar dips each session. I think they’d really compliment each other, thanks!

[quote]Colbstar wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:
Hey folks,

Goals are pretty non-specific. I want to get bigger and more athletic, and I feel that this will be good for me because I thrive on basic routines (and I absolutely suck at front squats).

I basically wanted to hear people’s thoughts and criticisms on the idea.

[/quote]
I would add in a loaded carry variation at the end of each workout.
Farmers walks are the king. Done heavy enough for a long enough distance, you will catch the attention of the cardio bunny you’ve been eyeing;)

Jokes aside… They are actually pretty draining if done right. From my own experience, I would only add these once a week and put in another carry variation for the other days. Give the articles below a read to find the other variations that fit you best. It might take some experimenting.

Colby[/quote]

Thanks Colby, good idea!