Hey…ive had oily skin acne and more body hair than my dad and bro but in the last few years and since starying trt the body hair and oily skin has went extreme as well with more acne which im sure is related to the oily skin. Another thing is when i wash my hair in sink…every time 10 or so hairs fall out. Which scares me. I recently requested a DHT test. Costs 35 dollars here in canada. Just got the result back…range is 800 to 3400 and my level is 5500
So question is. Should i lower it? I found a product that blocks dht on both skin and hair i believe its called avodart…i read many users cured their oily skin with this.
Any insight or suggestions? Is dht level this high normal? Should i be lowering? I know sex drive may suffer thats my only concern…
Looking at the wiki Dutasteride has some pretty bad sexual side effects.
Are you on T injections creams or gels? I know gels seem to convert more T to DHT.
Im on injections but i am certain my dht has been elevated since my teens because i had so many dht type side effects with exception of hair loss which i am now seeing albeit minimal. Ive only been om trt cyp injections for a year or so…
I think im going to try a low dose dutasteride trial and see if it controls on facial oil and scalp oil…if it does then ill continue. Plus it will stop daily hair shedding. 5 to 10 hairs a day adds up in the long run
Ive already done that in previous post. 100mg cyp a week divided into 2 doses tues night sat morn.
.25 to .5mg ai with each shot
Im sure someone can chime in and tell me if having a DHT level at 5500 when the range is 800 to 3400 is safe or normal or if it should def be treated and brought down.
That is interesting to have such high DHT levels and yet you still have a full head of hair. I am guessing you are at least in your mid to late 30’s MPB usually starts then.
As far as genes go I have always heard to look at your Mom’s Dad 90% of time that is the hair you will get.
Speaking of genes…no one is bald in my family. My bro and dad have full head of hair and very little body hair just some chest hair and little hair on back of neck top of shoulders…but with me its beast city! And been like that for years and got slightly worse when starting trt. So the excess body hair i know is a side effect of high dht. I have heard of finesteride sexual side effects which can be very bad but not sure if dutasteride has it.
I am on 100mg of cyp a week. It brings my total t up to around 37 and the range is 7.1 to 31.4
Free test goes up to 1200 range is 196 to 636. So perhaps my dosage is too high? Maybe im an over responder? Should i decrease my dosage to 50 to 75mg a week and aim for levels close to the top of ref range or just over instead of very over? Im sure that will bring dht down a bit but not sure how much. Other option is to keep the way it is 100mg a week and add dutasteride…
Those are some pretty big T numbers for such a low T dose. I’ll bet your SHGB is on the low side like 20 or less? Did I guess right?
It has been my experience, remember everyone is different, when your Free T is over the reference range a lot of bad side effect start happening. E2 and prolactin go thru the roof requiring an AI to control them, oily skin, mood swings, ED and libido problem. So for me it is better to cruise at the top of the Free T reference range and don’t go over it.
If you cycle or blast that is fine but it is completely different. Running your TRT to a 1000-1200ng/dL is nothing like a cycle of 2000-3000ng/dL.
funny you should ask, SHBG is one of the tests that ive never done and neither has my doc requested. I will and have been wanting to do it and will try to get this test done next week. So i can not say where it is. I am in canada so over here we use pmol and nmol per litre. And yes you are right, even tho my free test is double the reference range i am having a lot of side effects such as oily skin , acne, feeling hot , sweating a lot, bone and joint pain, a lot of ED issues, hard to lose fat, insomnia, etc… i was all banking of this being a result of high e2 or e2 fluctuations and high DHT…i have a hard time controlling and getting my e2 stable and keeping it stable.
I just cant wrap my head how i can over respond to only 100mg a week dose. So many people have been telling me 100mg is nothing and a waste of time and most people do 150 to 200mg for trt. Looks like i need to reduce to 50mg a week to get my numbers down around upper limit of ref range. is anyone even on a dose that low? maybe f2m trans people… lol
interesting note. when i tried out subq for a month i was doing 100mg split 2x a week and my labs showed my levels were at upper limit or just above upper limit and i felt better BUT my acne oily skin got worse so i went back to IM and it got a bit better. But on IM my numbers are much higher but i dont feel as good… i am assuming subq converts to DHT more than IM?
Finasteride, Dutasteride and or Propecia can leave you with debilitating permanent sexual, physical symptoms for life! Post Finasteride Syndrome has no cure and is thought to completely disable the enzyme responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
You want to lower your test dosage to lower DHT. You also need to post labs because your TRT protocol could be wrong for you, SHBG is needed to determine injection frequency.
The Post-Finasteride Syndrome is a serious state of permanent sexual, mental, and physical side effects which do not resolve after quitting the drug, most often accompanied by an acquired form of secondary hypogonadism and post-drug loss of androgenic action, which remains highly resistant to hormonal treatments aimed at restoring Testosterone/DHT’s effects in the male body to pre-drug virility levels. It is also surmised by the few specialists in the medical field that a type of receptor or “brain damage” has occurred. As often seen with such damage, recovery is very slow or now questioned whether possible at all. Needless to say, men suffering from PFS are plagued with any physical, mental, and emotional symptoms that have led to long term depression, marital problems and divorce, and now several reports cases of suicide.
I will try to get some fresh labs done next week… please tell me all the tests i should do,… i usually get e2 free and total test done every 2 to 3 weeks… I had DHT done last week, and cbc and cholesterol etc… but maybe u could make a list of the essential tests i should do so i can present them to my doc next week. I thought only finesteride had that syndrome not dutasteride…
There all pretty much do the same things, target the enzyme responsible for DHT. If you thought oily skin and ache was a problem, it won’t come close to comparing to PFS.
I don’t understand why you want to go to drugs when all you need to do is lower test dosage. The difference between 1500 and 800 is so small, the difference between 1500 and 4000, that’s a difference.
I think in my head the higher numbers im getting for total and more importantly free means more muscles. I feel if i lower to the top ref range from being at double the top ref range ill be missing out on higher protein synthesis and ultimately more muscle being created. I wanna make as much gains as possible. But perhaps it wont make a difference if my free is 700 vs 1200 it will do the same thing in terms of muscle and protein synthesis. Am i right?
Perhaps you will also feel better, it’s not worth risking permanent side effects for life. It’s not like your going to gain 20 pounds of muscle every year you’re above ranges, you genes have limits.
If your training is wrong not even 4000 will help you.
Of course you are going to hear 100 is nothing and you need 150 to 200 mg/wk you are on a forum called T Nation. Not naddy nation or TRT nation, haha and if your friends aren’t asking you things like what is your SHGB they don’t have a clue either they’re doing the bro-science crap.
SHGB is pretty important blood test for TRT hell even if you cycle. Your SHGB determines how much Free T you get since it is the main culprit that binds up your T making it useless. Fat cells also have an enzyme aromatase which converts T to E2 so fat is not your friend.
Guys with low SHGB don’t need anywhere as much T to get big Free T numbers and free T is what you feel. That is where the strength and recovery comes from. TT is crap you piss most of that out. That is why I am guessing yours is low. I would not do 50/wk 80 would be my suggestion and you need to wait 40 day after the protocol change before testing your TT/FT/E2 again because it takes testosterone cypionate 40 days to reach steady state. Meaning the T in your body keeps going up for 40 days before it levels out.
For me the basics blood tests are TT, FT, E2, prolactin, PSA, SHGB(because on TRT it moves around), and HCT and in your case I’d add DHT.
If you donate blood more than twice a year you probably should check your ferritin.
Ahhh well about a month ago or so i was doing 150mg a week but was getting too many cysts so i went back to 100mg. I think i shoild wait 2 or 3 weeks and then do the ft tt and e2 test because my bodu prob has too much circulating test fr the 150mg a week protocol i was on for a bit.
Regarding shbg, does that also need to be tested 40 days after changing dose? If shbg is low that means its safe to lower mu dosage. But if its high well then i dont know what that meams because how can it be high and i pull such high numbers as well?
I have low SHBG and if you give me a large dosage I will have very high numbers, but it will feel as if my numbers are low. It’s strange because if I inject smaller dosages 20mg EOD (550 ng/dL) I respond strongly to TRT, put me at 1200 ng/dL and I feel like death and nothing works.
You mistakes is your chasing numbers, you believe higher is better. This thinking is wrong.
I agree my thinkong is wrong. Thats what happens when u follow pro bb protocols. The whole higher dose higher free test the better. Thats what i was trying to do during my natty years. Using Supplements that would bump my free test as high as possible. Anyways…i will try to reduce my dosage to 40mg 2x a week. But even then it may be too high… One thing i wanted to ask. My dht is so high i dont think a 20mg reduction of test per week will bring it down that much. Maybe a bit but i feel it will still be way over the top limit. So if after reducing my test dosage to 80mg from 100mg and retesting dht in a couple of months and its still way too high but tt and ft are now in top limit range…what do i do then?
And u saidbu were doing 20mg eod. Thats 80mg a week. But…were u doing this im or subq? If im then how the hell do u manage 3 to 4 shots a week without your buttcheeks turning into swiss cheese? Thats a hell of a lot of puncture wounds
easy tough 27ga 1/2" syringes. IM use your delts I prefer subQ around the bellybutton. I do not believe there is any difference in DHT conversion. If anything your T cyp will adsorb a tiny bit slower subQ
I also would not change your injection frequency until you know your SHGB. IF your SHGB ends up super high, which I don’t think you have, you will want to go to 1 shot a week not more per week. If you have a high SHGB a big T shot will cause your SHGB to go down. That gives you more Free T, a good thing. That is why knowing your SHGB is so important.
Ok im going to her shbg tested this week and let u know. U have been a great help to me. Thanks. I have a feeling the 20mg eod is going to work for me. Small contant doses. But only if my shbg is low can i do this… And just to confirm…you are doing IM 20mg eod using 27g .5 inch into delts(prob alternating delts every shot). Right?
Regarding strength and recovery…mine is crap! Been trying to figure out why for a long time.