Election Day Thread

Agree, Pat.

We could do a thread about immigration policy. I don’t know if I have the time.

We have to seriously look at our system of allowing green card holders and legal immigrants to bring their elderly parents, who have never paid into the system. We can’t afford to become the world’s retirement home.

It’s a little surreal that this has become such a divisive partisan issue. Look at Canada, or countries in Europe, the ones that the progressives look to as models. To my knowledge, they all have more restrictive immigration laws than the US. Some of them MUCH more restrictive. I wonder why we think we can have it both ways here?

We can have more open borders and very limited social programs, or we can have controlled legal immigration with social programs for citizens. Pick one. Without the concept of sovereignty, you also have no basis for citizenship or rule of law. This is one of the Libertarian concepts that I’ve been grappling with a bit. Something for that thread, I suppose.

I agree that we should not have laws that we do not enforce. I don’t see how entering the US illegally means that once you’re here, you should never have to leave. In CA we have a waiver system that allows undocumented immigrants to attend public colleges with in-state tuition. Anybody who comes from a family making less than about $80,000 per year is going to get free tuition anyway, so tuition for these kids is often a moot point. We have a very steep need-based for lower income families, but middle-class families tend to have to pay the full cost, which subsidizes all those kids. Not to mention, the undocumented kid with a waiver is taking a spot that may have gone to the child of a tax-paying legal citizen. I feel for those kids, but it’s a mess, right? Don’t get me started on how we purposefully recruit tons of international students because we need their out-of-state tuition dollars to stay afloat.

Yeah, immigration needs reform. Pat, I do have sympathy for so many of these kids who were brought here when they were little, or who were born here but have undocumented parents. Good grief, I know many people in that situation. I don’t blame them, but I agree with you, there’s been lots of fear mongering. Trump has already said he’s serious about deporting people with felonies, and then he’d take a look at the many good people who remain. There’s no way we can deport everybody, even if we had the will to do it.

I was scanning the radio today, and someone commentators shitty explanation was that Milenials didn’t feel like a candidate represented them. So not voting is understandable.

Portland Public Schools had a special board meeting to implement a new policy requiring federal agents to provide credentials and paper work prior to talking about individual students. I don’t believe this has ever happened, and completely irrational. The whole thing is just causing people to be irrationally fearful.

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Well they are full of shit. Not voting is unacceptable. You can write in if you don’t like a candidate.
There are local races and adendums on the ballot. The whole fucking ballot isn’t irrelevant even if you don’t like the presidential candidates. There are still important things to vote on.

If you don’t like the outcome of an election you didn’t vote in, you are a hypocrite, period.

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It’s a bullshit response, indeed. Especially considering we had a gubnatorial race too. But that’s the rhetoric going around.

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The schools, cities, and states have no say when it comes to immigration law. We learned through the AZ immigration law that the Feds own immigration. Personally, I hope Trump unleashes the full potential of ICE and the Border Patrol.

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True, but they can spread their horse shit and alter the truth.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/17/san-francisco-teachers-union-offers-trump-lesson-plan.amp.html?client=safari

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Anything to avoid rethinking one’s urban, liberal, and truly privileged world view. Just keep voting for us while we enrich ourselves at your expense (and keep you out of our exclusive zip codes), and those evil working class racists won’t get you (because we’ll make sure we ship all their jobs overseas)! In the meantime, the poor left will fall hook line and sinker for our B.S. because we sound like we care.

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Thanks dchris.

This has caused a bit of an outrage among some of my professor friends. I was just a little thrilled to see one of them put this article up. Standing up for academic freedom? Free Speech? HUGE YES!! This is a high school teacher drawing parallels between Trump and Hitler. It’s just fine to talk about history and draw parallels to contemporary news. High school teachers SHOULD do that, but in a balanced and sane way that isn’t alarmism. The thing that’s NOT so great is that the people who want to support this teacher would likely be out to hang him if he’d done a lesson plan talking about the Clintons and Tammany Hall, or what Hillary has in common with Boss Tweed. Also, legitimate lessons, IMO. Or hey, we could talk about fascists and the PC movement along with talking about Trump’s comments about suppressing the press. All fine. Unfortunately, it’s not so much about academic freedom and free speech, as it is about a particular agenda. Too bad.

I was talking about how to build a lesson about fascism. This has a quiz for how to know if you’re a fascist. This would be fantastic for junior high or high school. Another side of that lesson, related to campus protesters.

http://hlrecord.org/2015/11/fascism-at-yale/

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The dishonorable asshat Chuck Schumer was on TV today saying that they will not allow ACA to be repealed under any circumstances. I wonder if he is willing to shut the government down to save it? Ted Cruz was Satan, what will they call Schumer I wonder.

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The left only offers emotional politics. They claim that they care more. Facts be damned, feelings are what matter.

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And that is what the democrats do best!

If only a year later, Harvard, as a whole, stood behind that position.

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Parallels are fine, but I don’t see the left using the same mental gymnastics to claim Obama, and his followers, are sexist.

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He probably will because the negative stigma of shutting down the government won’t be stuck upon him. So the saying goes, “one group’s terrorists are another group’s freedom fighters.”

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Obama is sacred. You can’t criticize him Ever. Or you’re a racist. The Dems really defended his use of executive privilege. Now we’ll see how they like it if Trump engages in the same kind of overreach. The old, “we like power as long as it’s in the right hands” problem. Hey dummies, this is why we don’t want the executive branch to be too powerful. See how it feels it when it’s not your guy in the white house.

About the teachers and lesson plans, some of this depends on the age of the students, and the subject matter of the curriculum, right? I’d like to see the actual lesson plan drawn up by the SF teacher. Sounds like she fired something off on the night of the election when emotions were high, and she never intended for it to get circulated all around. Geez. I support academic freedom so long as it’s within the scope of the subject being taught and is appropriate for the age. My daughter’s 6th grade teacher had the students write a position paper on the 2nd Amendment, either in support or against. She didn’t come at them with her own views, she really wanted them to think about it from all the angles. Politically charged topic, but just fantastic exercise in getting the kids to do some research and do their own thinking. This kind of thing is good.

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On the topic of how to teach kids about Trump. This is a nice article by Peggy Noonan.
Paywalled, so I apologize for the long post. I heart her. 11/18 WSJ, What to Tell Your Children About Trump We are the world’s oldest democracy, we are good people, and we’ve been through shocks before.

Eight points and two anecdotes as we continue to digest this astounding election.

You don’t know a tree is hollow until you push hard against it and it falls. The establishments of both parties did not know, a year ago, that they were hollow trees. They thought themselves strong because they always had been, and people think what has been true will continue. Then suddenly the tree is pushed and falls. To me that is the symbol, the image of 2016: the hollowed trees and how easily they fell.

Election night 2016 was not like 1980. That year produced an outcome fully within the political norms: a former two-term governor won the presidency. This year’s outcome went beyond all previous norms. Twenty-sixteen was like nothing in our lifetimes. In the future people will say, “Where were you that election night?” the way they do for other epochal moments.

Much of the mainstream, legacy media continues its self-disgrace. Having failed to kill Donald Trump’s candidacy they will now aim at his transition. Soon they will try to kill his presidency. Any journalists who are judicious toward Trump, who treat him fairly or even as a human being, are now accused of “normalizing” him. This is a manipulation: It is a way of warning your colleagues to approach the president-elect with the proper hostility or be scorned. None of this will do our country any good.

The left is in enraged mourning. A better way forward would be: reflect, absorb, gather your strength as the opposition, constructively oppose. Lose the hissing rancor. Use that energy to rebuild your party.

Right now 60 million people are very happy, and hopeful. They haven’t taken to the streets in elation, so we can’t see them. They haven’t broken car windows in their joy. Respect their happiness.

This is my fear: The question we ask after every national election is, “Can we come together?” The question this year is more, “Do we even want to come together?” Have the two nations within our nation reached a point of permanent estrangement? If the cultural left eases up and the economic right loosens up, maybe things can be soothed.

I think many people intuitively sense this: The Trump era either really will work or really won’t. It’s going to be something good or a disaster, but it won’t be a middling thing.

This big, burly country can take it either way. The proper attitude now? Give him a chance, watch close, wish well. Cheer what’s sound, criticize what isn’t.

And this: trust America.

Five days after the election I met an Ethiopian immigrant on a street in Washington. We got to talking. He spoke of how bad it was in his old country, all the killing. He’d been here 15 years. “I love America,” he said. “It gave everything to me.” But he was deeply concerned by the election. He has two sons, 8 and 6. The younger got up Wednesday morning, saw the TV and burst into tears. Trump won! The boy calls Trump “the mouth man.” How could a bully be president? “He wept,” said the Ethiopian. “How do I explain it to him?”

I thought. Finally I said, “Tell him to trust America.” Tell him that we are the world’s oldest democracy, that we are a good people, that we’ve been through shocks and surprises, and that we have checks and balances. “If it turns out good,” I said, “we’ll be happy. If it turns out really bad, America has a way of making your stay in the White House not too long. But tell him to trust America as you did, and it gave you everything.”

He said he’d tell his son that. We warmly shook hands.

This isn’t the first story of frightened children I’ve heard since the election. It’s the third. When I told it to a friend, also foreign-born, and so America-loving that he chokes up when he quotes past presidents, he told me that his 5-year-old woke up after the election and sobbed at the news.

Trump supporters feel that the left did this, demonizing Mr. Trump and making him monstrous. There’s some truth in that. But even truer is that Mr. Trump himself scared the children of America for a solid year with his loud ways and rough manner—“the mouth man.”

What a great thing it would be if Donald Trump would take a day off from the presidential transition, go to a series of schools, bring the press, and speak to children, telling them that he has nothing in his heart but the desire to do good and help people. “I have children and even grandchildren,” he might say. “I love them. I will do my best, and I love you.”

Mr. Trump’s people seem to me right now proud, exhausted and painfully aware that they emerged victorious despite the daily pummeling from the establishment and elite media. No one gave them a break.

And they’re right. It was that way.

But it’s not sissy-ish to respect peoples’ anxieties. It doesn’t legitimize your foes’ criticisms to show sensitivity. All presidents since Washington, “the father of our country,” have been seen as a national father figure. It grates on conservatives to think like that. It grates on me. But that’s inevitable for kids who see the president on TV all the time in an un-parented country.

They need to see a little gentleness and good intent. Their parents would appreciate it. And it’s needed before the inauguration. Impressions will have hardened by then.

I end with a related personal note. I never interviewed Donald Trump throughout this year’s campaign. From the beginning he reminded me of men I grew up with, Trumps with no money—loud, unsmooth, rough opinions. Where you came from and who you were surrounded by has a bearing on your loyalties and can bend your thinking. I judged that I’d see Mr. Trump most clearly from a middle distance. So I didn’t go, talk, interview. Six weeks ago I called a Trump staffer I’d interviewed to check a quote. She returned my call from Trump Force One. We spoke, and then suddenly the phone seemed to drop and I heard, “Who’s that?” Then I heard, “Peggy, this is Donald.”

I won’t quote exactly what was said. No one put it off the record, but it felt off the record, and some of the conversation was personal. But I can describe it. He was dignified, hilarious and modest. He told me that I’d sometimes been unfair to him, sometimes mean, sometimes really, really mean, but that when I was he usually deserved it, always appreciated it, and keep it up. He spoke of other things; he characterized for me my career.

I’d heard of his charm offensive, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say how charming, funny and frank he was—and, as I say, how modest. How actually humble.

It moved me. And it hurt to a degree a few weeks later when I wrote in this space that “Sane Donald Trump” would win in a landslide but that the one we had long seen, the crazed, shallow one, wouldn’t, and didn’t deserve to.

Is it possible there are deeper reserves of humility, modesty and good intent lurking around in there than we know? And maybe a toolbox, too, that can screw those things together and produce something good?

Where there’s life, there’s hope. He’s lively. Let’s hope.

But whatever happens, trust America. She has a way of weathering through.

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I am not cherry picking your post, I find it very good, however, if two children, ages 6 and 5 wake up “sobbing” because of a political election, that is on the parents. What? they talk about the " White demon" around the dinner table? Use Trump pictures for target practice? Make them watch Chris Hayes ? Maybe if they loved America so much, they could invest in learning how the system works.

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I think it’s great if teachers are able to detach themselves from an outright bias on political issues. Although, unless the 2nd amendment is discussed in context of its intent - to protect oneself from a tyrannical government - it becomes an emotional argument.

Here’s a very good, albeit long, post on the power minorities have.

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